I think I made my Reefugium is Useless

[adova]

I have been fighting with microbubble in my tank since creation. The problem is that the refugium overflows directly into the return section of the sump and causes a lot of bubbles.

So I came up with a brainstorm with other day - I put a coarse filter over the output section of the return pump. I knew that I would be cleaning it often, but it was worth it to remove the bubbles.

But now I am thinking that the filter media is going to keep the copepods and such from getting to the tank.

I was thinking that I should just make a bubble trap for the refugium side of the sump, but that is going to be a pain since it is in action. Maybe I could just shake the cheato into the sump return area once a week when i am cleaning the filter media.

I know this is a mess, but any suggestions are welcomed....

Shawn

[rehnberg]

Is there a way to seperate where the overflow is and where the return section is? I am having problems with bubbles to and I have baffles set up. It is frusterating. I have been told that a few bubbles won't hurt anything.

[rehnberg]

you could use a filter sock. I am using one it helps with the bubbles just have to keep it clean.

[bmwardo]

I was trying to make out your sump in your other thread... it looks as though it is acrylic. Is there any way you can plug the bulkhead that is currently feeding your return pump and drill a new hole for a bulkhead (for your return) in a more desirable area?

I have also seen this done: however your bulkhead is threaded (or not) you could slip in or screw in a 90 degree PVC elbow attachment pointed downward towards the bottom of your sump. If the bulkhead is fairly high you could then just add a piece of PVC to the elbow pointed downward. This may help reduce the number of bubbles without too much work involved.

[adova]

I have tried the elbow pointing down, but that didn't solve the problem entirely. The Reefugium is so high that the waterfall puts bubbles all the way down to the bottom of the return. I am anal about microbubbles - I think they just ruin a tank.

There is no "better" place for the return since there are drains fromthe tank on both sides of the return. Baffels would prob be the easier solution than a re-drill anyways. Actually baffels is almost 100% what I neeed to do :(. I just wish i would have thought about it during the build initially.

Like I said - this works, but my reffugium is not getting the nutrient back to the tank because of the filter.

Another thought - maybe I could make the baffels as a stand alone solution and place them inthe sump - that way I do not need to drain it and glue. There may be some spots that are not super tight, but will that really be a problem?

I love brainstorming.

[rehnberg]

How did you put the filter media on the output side of the pump? Wouldn't it get pushed into your tank or clog up the return line? I covered the input side of my Mag 5 with some sponge but the bubbles still get threw.

[adova]

The filter is on the input side of the return - I think there is a terminaology problem when talking about sumps, returns, etc.

Anyways i put the filter on the pipe sucking water back up to the main tank.....

[rehnberg]

I see I did the same thing, I think you will be surprised. I get little criters in my main tank from my refugium. I can see them crawling in the sponge on my return pump. I am mainly using my refugium for nitrate break down, not so much for pods. I am still getting bubbles threw my sponge what kind of fliter media did you use. You say course filter media, is it the blue stuff you cut yourself?

[ReefJerk]

Have your water level from the refugium to the return area slightly higher than the baffle so there is no waterfall.

If you have it so there is a slight ripple as the water cascades over the baffle into the return area, that should alleviate your problem.

[dajum]

Can you post a picture of the refugium return? I'm sure it won't be hard to come up with an easy solution if we can see what you have to work with. There are a lot of easy to make/install bubble traps depending on how you are getting the bubbles in the first place.

Dave

[carbuyersfriend]

PM Sent

[chadscharf]

I was having the same problem because my skimmer's return line dumps right next to the return pump which sits in the sump and I had no room to move anything anywhere.

I simply but out some egg-crate and layed it over the return line/intake and wrapped one of the small sheets in a filter media bag. The bubble have sense stopped. The only time I get them is if a piece of something or another gets shredded by the pump or I'm careless with the top-off.

The deep egg crate seems to do a good job of breaking up most of the bubbles and wasn't a big pain to get in there.

- Chad

[adova]

Here is a link showing the design I used:

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html

The problem comes fromthe waterfall on the right side - I am thinking baffles here would solve the problem, but I did not want to drain to glue them in - hence a self-contained baffle of sorts.

Shanw

[roguemonk]

Shake-n-bake Baffle idea:

Buy a plastic crate with openings on all the sides (one of those office paper baskets might work) that will fit just inside your sump. Fill it with live rock or dead rock that's clean to weigh it down. It should interrupt the flow of bubbles as the water has to work its way through.

I did something similar in my sump to reduce turbulence (not for bubbles but to calm down the float switch that shuts off my pump as the water level falls).

Brad

[dajum]

The bubbles come from the water falling down hard into the water. You can do two things to reduce the bubbles in there. First, try and eliminate the water falling into the water and entraining air with it by placing a ramp below the outlet. that will get the water to glide down smoothly into the water in the return section. You can make a simple ramp out of a peice of acrylic and just hang it off the refugium wall. The longer the ramp the better, but a 45 degree angle would probably work okay.

You could add a baffle at the end of it to force the flow to go down close to the bottom, allowing the bubbles to rise back up under the ramp area. The baffle doesn't need to be perfect, even the adjustable mesh tank dividers ( like this only I've seen adjustable ones: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18275/si1380080/cl0/leesaquariumdivider2955gallon ), would work great if the water can flow under it, where the bubbles wont travel.

Dave

[adova]

Yep - looks like baffles are the way to go - I will make some this weekend and see what happens.... I'll give an update after its done.

Shawn

[dajum]

Not just baffles. I would get rid of most of the bubble formation.
Good luck.

Dave

[Thurge]

If you just layed a piece of acrylic up against the overflow teeth at an angle, like Dajum said it will allow the water to flow into the return section instead of falling and causing bubbles. It wouldn't even need to be glued.

Another idea would be to pile some LR up to the overflow teeth. Again the idea is the same, you are providing a surface for the water to flow down, not to fall down.

[adova]

The baffles that I was thinking of would be very high for the first one and then step down to the final water level.

Also, the waterfall effect is not the only source of bubbles - the water flow is so strong entering the refugium, that the bubbles caused in there do not dissapate entirely before exiting the refug. So, even a ramp alone would not eliminate the bubble (although it would help tremendously).

The baffles should work 100% as they do on the other side....

[dajum]

IT sounds like you need a baffle in the refugium as well. So that no bubbles get to the overflow.

Dave

[lion-clown]

I am sorry for my ignorance but what is wrong with air bubbles? Is it a cosmetic issue or does it do harm? I always thought you wanted as much air as possible exspecially in the refugium.

[adova]

It is a cosmetic issue. The air bubbles get sucked into the return pump and get shot back into the tank, but now they are usually exteremly small. With enough of them, it will make the tank appear "cloudy" and will resemble small particles of dust / dirt.

So, it is not that you necessarily want lots of air in your system, but lots of water flow.

[ReefJerk]

It's much more than a cosmetic issue. It can cause issues with corals as well as fish. If I'm not mistaken, it can cause bubble eye among other things.

[adova]

Wow - learn something new every day - I would love to know more if you happen across any links.

Shawn

[lion-clown]

I was just curius as to where you (reefjerk) heard that and if there is any articles that you know of on it?

[ReefJerk]

I think it was on wetwebmedia.com. something about supersaturation or something. I was doing research on popeye because I had 2 fish get it in the same system within a few weeks of each other. when I got rid of the microbubbles, the popeye left. Of course, I still had two half-blind fish.

[adova]

I made one of the baffles and put it in and it seems to have helped out considerably. I also put in a 90 elbow to get the return sucking water from the lowest point in the sump. I think one more baffle and I will be set!!

[cirujano]

Check this out!
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.php

[rehnberg]

That article is interesting. Makes me feel better because no matter what I do I get bursts of bubbles in my tank from my fuge. I have tried everything and can't get them to stop. Maybe I should just not worry about it.