Going to do it rite.

[Tang~Cop]

I have taken the time to think on how I want to do this hobby, I want to do it rite first and have 0% losses (I know that is everyone’s dreams) I will have allot of funds coming to me in the next few months to let me complete me dream so I want to start planning it.
I want to leave the idea of breeding marine fish until I have got keeping them alive accomplished (or until my Omans arrive, I have contacts) Anyway this is the tank I want to start with.

5ft
2ft
2ft
150gallons

I want to keep many types of inverts and corals and make this a stunning reef. I want to have a nice school of fish but cannot decide. I know chromis school but are very aggressive towards won another and will kill each other.
Anyway is was on Marinecenter.com and fell in love with the idea of a school of either butterfly fish or tangs, I know I wont be able to keep more than 3 tangs in this tank, so I looked at butterfly fish, mainly the Chaetodon semilarvatus.
I wanted to do this with the tank...

1 x Naso Tang
1 x Yellow Bellied Blue Tang
1 x Powder Blue Tang
5 x Semilarvatus Butterfly Red Sea
2 x White Cap Clownfish
4 x Yashia Goby
2 x Grenn Mandarin
1 x Black Trigger

I will have a good sump and skimmer, and a large refugium for the Mandarins.

[kmf507]

IMHO, that is more than double what you could expect to keep in that tank. I think 1-2 tangs could/should be in that tank.

[kmf507]

On second thought, I just read that your preferred butterfly grows up to 9". My opinion is not so humble now, you should not keep 3 tangs, 1 trigger, 5 butterflies that grow to 9" in a tank of that size. I would think those large fish would crowd an 8' tank.

[Tang~Cop]

Thanks, ok if I loose the Blue Tang and the Trigger and go with 4 butterfly fish would that be ok?

[GSMguy]

naso needs 6x3x2minimum

[Tang~Cop]

you shore? marincecenter says 55gal?

[helloreef]

Tang Cop,

Dont listen to any of marine center's size recomendations, they drasticaly reduce them ! Last week I was reading on ther and it said that an adult imperator angel can be kept in a 55g, thats a 15in fish! A naso is going to need a 6' tank minimum, if you want to keep all those fish I would go with something more like 8'L x 3'W x2'H and even at that I would keep any more than four of those butterflies. JMO

helloreef

[Tang~Cop]

So I really need to rethink my stocking.

[kmf507]

I think so. You might also find (at least I did) that after your first couple pieces of coral, you become more interested in coral than the fish. As such, my 90 gallon tank is lightly stocked fish wise, but has quite a bit of coral.

For reference, in my 90 gallon tank (30 gallon sump and 10 gallon fuge) I have a yellow tang, flame angel, two percs, and two damsels. I am probably only going to get 1-2 more fish, neither of them large. I am by no means an expert, but want better water quality for the corals and thus, less fish stock.

[Shagsbeard]

Since you have expressed an interest in breeding... focus your attention more on coral and less on fish. Coral propogation is both easier and more profitable than fish breeding. Very few fish will breed in captivity and your 150 is probably not suitable for any of them. But learning to frag corals is easy, and you can eventually fund your hobby by supplying local stores with coral (the real dream of a hobbiest).

[coker98]

Load it up. If you have a good skimmer and plan on getting a better and bigger tank why not have a lot of fish. Just make sure they have space to swim. Schooling fish into adulthood is pretty much impossible unless you have 1000+ gallon tank. You could always have your small school of butterflies and just superupgrade or bring them into the lfs when they are big.

[Tang~Cop]

ok. Thanks. I will seriously have a look at coral fragging. I have acces to corals that arnt even known of in NZ so that would be cool, also help saving the coral reef would be a cool thing to.

I will have a look at what fish I want to add tonight.

[zuzecawi]

Might be a little premature to plan your stocking before your tank is even up... it's good to educate yourself on your options, but as many people have and will say, nothing happens quickly except disaster, in this hobby. Once you've say, stocked your tank with live rock, you might discover that there's not as much room for fish as you thought there would be, and that'll change your fish load. Or, maybe you'll decide that you really really want something cool and wildly different, and you'll build a specific habitat for one specific species. You say you want numerous fish of a single species, well, instead of the butterflies, which can be difficult and aggressive (I don't know much about them so I could be wrong on that), you might consider a whole crap load of assessors, in a big sea cave setting, with gorgonians, sponges, and soft corals that don't require a lot of light, and maybe a bunch of cleaner shrimp and a reef lobster (who might eat an assessor or two but hey, that's life on the reef).

Sometimes the smaller fish are just as attractive and cool as the bigger tangs. And much, much more suitable to captivity. It's kinda a sickness in reefers, to always want to dive in to the big and hard to keep fish. Why bring a tang in that might not live more than a few months in a new and raw tank when you can have equally colorful, hardier small fish that provide a lot of in and out darting action, and shoaling behaviors much more readily in a smaller environment than say, the 6" and above fish.

Remember, you're taking fish from miles of reef in some instances, and putting them into a five foot by two foot box. That's like confining a two year old to the bathroom only. The fish might live, but things can go wrong very, very quickly. Now, if you set up the TV and DVD player, the PS2 and a bunch of rubber ducks, a nice pull down bed, books, and a gazillion legos, the two year old might not object so much. Same with the fish, if you provide them with regular water changes, good quality environment and meticulous attention to detail, they'll do well, maybe even thrive. But they're still in a box.

Just try to have fun in the hobby, but remember too, that your plans have a very real impact on the animals that you keep. So maybe take a little more time on setting up your tank BEFORE you get fish, and maybe take a little more time letting your tank mature BEFORE you add the fish. Honestly, watching live rock mature is just as cool as watching fish. It might not have that instant attention getting Wow! as the fish do, but it has provided many hours of entertainment in my household. I'm a little more patient than most people, I like to watch my tanks mature liverock and sand only for six months before I add any fish at all, that way you can let the natural algae blooms happen without going Oh My Gosh my beautiful showpiece is ruined! Somehow, it's easier to watch algae blooms if you don't have any fish, and it's a lot quicker clearing them up when there's no phosphates and nitrates being added from your food. WHen it does come time to add fish, I usually just start slowly, with a few smaller fish, to get the bioload worked in nice and easy, like a new engine on a car.

Sure, the Ferrari can do 150mph like a cakewalk, but when you first get it, you have to hold back and drive 55 until the motor's all worked in. That way you actually get to ENJOY it for longer instead of hotrodding for a few months and then throwing a rod. Those first few fish that hit the tank are the stars of the show, we often feel a fondness for them that most people don't accord to grammas and gobies, while most people are hung up on their large show fish, we equally love their smaller helpful friends, the neon gobies that come out to clean the sailfin tang, the clown gobies hiding in the branches of the acropora coral. When you've let your tank settle with the smaller fish, then add your big show species, your tangs, angels, butterflies, etc.

A note though, I don't think you can keep coral or clams with butterfly fish or most angels. I might be wrong, butterflies and angels aren't my thing, I don't know much about them. But I do know that when we add fish in this order, small to big, we appreciate the small ones just as much as we would have the tangs, and it's much safer to the fish and the micro eco system you have in your aquarium.

There are many ways to keep a reef, and mine is only one, and my opinion is only that, an opinion. I hope that you enjoy your aquarium, that you plan well, have plenty of room for flexibility in your plans, and that you're willing to compromise for the health of your livestock. Good luck!

[Tang~Cop]

WoW
That was a really infomative reply that I needed. I have decided that you are 100% correct, I would really like to give corals a go. With the fish I dont want a school of large fish because simply my tank isnt big enough. I was looking through a online vender and love the look of some of the fish they have available.

I want to coral it out 100% and have decided on these fish...

clownfish (2)
Zebrasoma flavescens Hybrid (2)
Zebrasoma rostratum x Z. scopas (2)
Green Mandarin (2/Pair)
Black Barred Convict Goby (2/Pair)
Bicolor Blenny (2/Pair)
Kaudern's Cardinal (4/2Pairs)
Hi Fin Red Banded Goby (2/Pair)

The reason I would like pairs is that there wont be as much aggression and Once I havt got the bacics of marine keeping I want to breed them.
Are these fish man made or are the naturally like that?
http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?ddid=15725&siteid=20
http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?ddid=15929&siteid=20

[BiggySmalls]

you do know you will have to wait a little while for the mandarins becasue of the fact that they need PODS. that is their main source of food and the tank shouod be establish for 6 months at least i think

i like your idea of getting alot of pairs

[BiggySmalls]

wow you are going to spend alot on those tangs, they cost alot

i like the yellow hybrid

how much do yu think you are goin to spend ?

[dwd5813]

IMO hybrids are to be avoided. based on my experience with african cichlids, i can say that hybrids are weak fish that will not produce desireable offspring even if they breed, assuming that they survive that long. good to see the revisions of your list, cause there were some potential problems. butterflies, i'm told, eat coral. as for mandarins, biggy hit on a good point. they eat copepods. LOTS of copepods, from what i have read. zuzecawi hit on a lot of good points, especially the timeframe for allowing your system to mature.
good luck and keep up the research. i have been in that phase for a looooong time.

[Zestay]

watch out for those mandarins.. ones hard enough.. but 2? good luck

[Tang~Cop]

I am going to add the Mandarins at the yearly point. But i thought tangs have never been breed before?