210 g tank water setup question

[nrehman]

Hi,

I am setting up a 210g tank with a 150 sump. I would like to avoid having to cycle my tank by consolidating the water from three operational tanks (100g + 100g + 72 g), adding in 90g of new bucket aged water to get my volume up to what is necessary.

Does anyone have any feedback to whether I can add my livestock/corals into this setup?

Thanks!

[aragongod]

I went from a 60g to a 250g and used all the water from the 60g plus 190g that i had to make up. I put all th livestock in the 250g with the 60g of water and added the new water slowly. I had no losses.
I'm sure there will be others that will chime in and give u insights on how they did the swap. But in the end, all you can do is corralate(no pun intended) the information given and come up with your own way of doing things.

tony.

[Untamed12]

...Simply using the water only from the previous setups won't work. You have to transfer the biological medium as well. This is usually LR, but it could be bio-balls or whatever you are using the old tanks.

[Fiziksgeek]

I dont see a problem with your plan!!!


When I went from my 135 to my 210 with a 75 sump I started preparing a couple of weeks in advance. I bought a couple of rubbermaid brute trash cans and put bulk heads in them. On the inside, I put a 90 and a short piece of pipe. I hooked up an extra pump I had and pumped water from the sump into the can. Each day I mixed up a few more gallons of new salt water, put it in the trash can, and extended the pipe a bit. So I never added more than 15 gallon of new salt water at once, and by the time I was ready to make the transfer, I had an extra 80 gallons of water in my system. Now I use to brute containers for holding Ro and mixing salt water on the 210!

[RokleM]

You're missing the critical information here that determines the largest impact. Are you adding any new rock or sand to the new tank? Are you moving sand from the old tank(s) to new tank? Do you have sand in your current tanks?

If the answer is no to all of the above, you're probably ok. Re-use as much of your water as possible, or start slowly filling it NOW with water you would normally pitch during a water change. Be very careful to keep your rock and such out of the water for minimal amount of time. I would also recommend doing a quick shake in some new fresh salt mix water for all of your rock to remove detritus and such that has accumulated.

If the answer is no to the first two, but yes to the sand in current tanks, you will likely have a minor cycle. Get all of the water out of your tanks you can before removing live rock. As you pick up the rock, you will stir a considerable amount of sand and force a mini-cycle.

If the last two paragraphs aren't applicable, then you will have a cycle no ifs ands or buts. There is no way around it. Yes, moving your live rock and such will help with filtration and such immediately, but your corals/fish/etc will be impacted by a cycle. I would suggest adding your new rock/sand now, fill it partially with new water, and use your "throw away" water from water changes to assist with the cycling process. Give it a month or two running just as you would any new tank.

[nrehman]

All, thanks for your replies.

I see where you are all coming from. So, here is a more detailed plan. Comments welcome!

Pre-Tank setup

1. Begin creating additional water using one/combination of methods mentioned above.

Fiziksgeek, nice idea.
Could you please explain how you set up the additional water storage. Did you put the return bulkheads (and shut-off) low and then the 90s with pipe were above, so as you circulated and added water, the return was made higher and higher? Water from the sump was simply pumped in from the top?


2. Set-up a bare-bottom temporary tank .


Post tank setup

1. Move all fish/inverts, etc. to the bare-bottom tank with a few pieces of live rock.

2. Move water, sand and rock from existing tanks and combine to new 210g. Combine with water made in prior step.

There is a question about moving the sand, which I put in another thread. Should I do so or not. My one feedback was, don't, as all the waste chemicals will be in this sandbed (which if old leads to tank crashes). Any ideas? Should I "skim" off the top 1/2" and get new? If there a cycle going to occur, should I just use the sand?

3. Wait for any cycle to occur (or wait about 30 days).

4. Post-cycle, add back the fish and smaller pieces of live rock into the stable environment.

Some notes:
Total water volume should be around 360g (210g tank + 150g sump).
Number of fish are at 20-22. Sizes are med 4" to small 1 1/2".

[RokleM]

Good plan. Most will likely say to just use fresh sand if you can acquire/afford it.

[nrehman]

Eric,
Thanks. You brought up several excellent points which changed my methodology.

Please feel free to post any additional feedback.
Thanks.

[Fiziksgeek]

Here is a pic of my set up. I put an extra pump in the sump and plumbed it up to the trashcans with some flexible tubing and hoseclamps.

I dont have a good pic, but I will try to clarify what happens inside the can. There is a bulk head drilled a few inches from the bottom of each can, and a piece of pvc to let it drain back into the sump. Inside the can, there is a 90 elbow which points upward. With just the elbow, the can has about 6" of water in it. Each time I added more water, I added a section of pvc pipe to the elbow. This raises the water level in the can. The first day i used just the elbow, 2 days later I added about 20 gallon of new saltwater, and therefor added a pipe about 6" long to the elbow.

Hope this helps!


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/9619915.JPG

[nrehman]

Fiziksgeek,
That helps alot. It is what I pictured in my mind. How are the two trash cans linked together, or are they not linked and you have two pumps flowing water into each trash can? What kind of pump/flow did you have circulating?
Thanks!

[Fiziksgeek]

They are not linked at all. Both drain seperately back into the sump. Just one pump, I think it was a sedra 9000 that I had sitting around, way more pump then I actually needed or wanted, but it worked. I used 1' clear tubing, you can see it comming up and over the top, I put in a T and fed both cans at the same time. There is valve on the tubing that leads to the second can, that way I can force some water into the first can..otherwise the water just flows striaght across the T and all into the second can.

[nrehman]

Perfect! Many thanks.

[Fiziksgeek]

No problem. This worked well for me. I was able to greatly reduce the amount of new water I had to add during the move!

This how I made the move: Started with brand new sand, then the 80 gallons of water from the trashcans. Filled a couple of rubbermaid bins and move my corals into them temporarily. Moved most of my rock to the new tank. Moved most of the remaining water into the new tank. Moved the fish then the remaining rock, and siphoned out as much water as i could. added enough new saltwater to get the tank up and running.

When I moved the rock, i dunked each piece in another container of saltwater to get off any loose debris.

Like mentioned before, try not to disturb the sand (if you have sand) during the move. Get everything else over to the new tank. If you can put in new sand, do so. If you want to reuse what you have, I would recommend sucking it out with a shop vac at the end, get it into a bucket and rinse it out really well....then add it to the new tank later.

[anjhof]

I'll share my experience....I moved from a 75 to a 210 less than 2 months ago. I added at least 90% new water to the 210. I used maybe 2-3 cups of sand from the 75, bought a 10 lb bag of live sand and added that with the 140 lbs of new sand I put in the 210. I moved all the rocks from the 75 and from a 55 I had set up to store the extra live rock, into the 210. I have a relatively light bio load for a 75 - 7 fish - none larger than 5 inches. I experienced a minor cycle. I had a little brown algae grow on the glass and rocks a couple of weeks after the move, but none of my corals or fish died. The bloom stopped in less than a week. This may not be ideal, but it worked for me.

[nrehman]

Thanks anjhof. Seems like you are one of ones who has escaped unscathed! I've heard a lot of tragic stories from experienced reefers who went too fast from one system to the other.

[Fiziksgeek]

I think alot has to do with the bio load. The heavier the load, the more careful you have to be....

[anjhof]

I am sure that plays a big role. I also think that transferring mature live rock helps a ton too.

[nrehman]

Hmmn...21 fish of 4" to smaller as I am combining fish from two tanks. That seems like a medium bioload.. Any thoughts? Note that I have no problem waiting out a mini-cycle (I'll just monitor daily to see if there is one).