Reef Catastrophe last night

[firefish2020]

Bad news everyone.

Our home Reef tank underwent a massive Ca storm last night after a reactor incident which overdosed the reef and raised the pH to 9.6. We quickly implemented a 25 gallon water change. This morning the tank was near ruin. Arc Eye Hawk Fish was dead, and our 4 year old Yellow Tang died. Another water change carried out, after consulting the greatest resource available (RC), we added 1 1/2 cup white vinegar and started adding air. Next we began pouring in 3 cups of Seltzer Water every 15 minutes. By 6 o'clock the pH was at 8.5 and visibility was getting better.

So far all coral have minimal to severe damage. SPS look horrible, helliopora is dead, huge bubble coral looks dead or dying. My Green Candy is burned seriously and I don't have a frag of it anywhere in growout, I am in short very unhappy right now.

I will update as I know more.

[earlnewt]

Very sorry to hear the bad news. I have seen other people post some tank losses for one reason or another and people from Reef Central were very nice and gave frags to them once everything was normal again. I hope people will do the same for you in your aera. I would but I live in Mass. Good luck with the rest.

[Rod Cobble]

Ouch! I feel your pain. Can you elaborate what exactly went wrong with your reactor? I have not yet experienced a total tank catastrophe thank goodness, but it is always a fear. I await your response, It may help others with their system design to protect from this happening.

Unfortunately since I am in the process of just re-establishing myself I do not have much to share in the way of corals.

Keep us updated.

RC

[coralreefer]

Dam* Ron sorry to hear this :(
Like Rod said what kinda reactor and what happened? How high did your alk go?

[phljess]

I have had the same thing happen to me. I hope your livestock pull through with minimal damage. Be careful with the vinegar, too quick of a drop can be worse than the high pH.

[Brock Fluharty]

Ron, I am coming to the next swap, and i'll bring you a head of my green candy cane if yours does not make it. idk if it's exactly the same as yours, but mines a light neom green.

[mcox33]

Ron Sorry to hear about your tank.


What reactor was the culprit.
That is part of why I have never hooked up the calcium reactor and kalk reactors. I was worried I would have something like this happen. But I didn't think you were using a calcium reactor.

[wvdaisy]

Ron, so sorry about your tank and livestock. I also have the green candycane and some zoas I bought from you last meet, if they're some you lost I would be glad to frag them for you.

Rod, hope to see you next meeting. I'll be the one with all the cookies :D DH will be the one with all the audio/visual equipment.

[firefish2020]

Thanks for the offers everyone, all I really care about getting back is a frag on my original green candy if it does not make it. I want no other frags but I appreciate the kind words and offers from everyone everywhere.

UPDATE:
The star fish did die.

The basic are this:
I decided to add Kalk to my ReefTek Kalk Reactor just as normal. Everything went as planned but apparently something had caused an unnoticed drop in the sump prior to the change so when I put everything back on line the reactor effluent pumped into the tank instead of pure water.

From what we have found on here, once the pH reaches 8.5 the tank should take care of itself and rebalance. However the damage was done in the hours that the system was above 9.0. Vinegar was actually less efficient than the soda water which was nearly instantaneous. It resulted in a .01-.02 drop with every dose (1-1/2 cups). I did this over as slow a period as I could but also quick enough to get everything out of the danger zone before more direct effects took place.

Again thanks for the concern and offers but I post this only as a documentation so that others may learn from it, whatever the outcome may be.

Mary there is nothing wrong with the reactor, this was simple user error on my part for not checking the sump level before turning the ATO back on. All systems worked as they should have , it was just that the reactor was full of fresh Kalk and so it dumped into the tank during the pro-longed top off.

As for the Alk, I can't get an accurate reading until the precipitate falls out and the water is not cloudy any more.

I'll update in the AM.

[1package]

Probably want to leave the lights off, if it has not cleared up. Also the pumps will be crude filled around the magnets. If you have sand, there may be a layer on the sand, clumping it together.

A filter sock or external filter will help.

My softies and LPS bounced back fine, I took a major SPS hit.

Good luck

[LowCel]

I'm very sorry to hear this, hope everything else survives for you.

[grendl]

Good luck Ron!

[Rod Cobble]

OK, so Im assuming you are using Kalk water as top off instead of fresh water. Is your top off design gravity fed? Here is a suggestion, (I use calcium reactor, but not Kalk so I havent tried this) but, could you use a float switch to turn on a dosing pump for top off instead of gravity feed. Then A PH controller set to default ON all the time, but if ph > 8.6 then dosing pump OFF.

So basically Im saying put 2 AC control switches on the dosing pump. Main switch controlled by water level, and a backup first stage switch only shuts off in PH emergencies.

Rod

p.s. Oh and for those of you worried about adding a calcium reactor because of potential disaster. Dont be. They work a little different than Kalk reactors. It would be almost impossible for this type of thing to happen with a calcium reactor, because you would need a minimum of 2 failures to simultaneously take place, for PH to drop (opposite of Kalk, because of injecting C02 into reactor) the CO2 bottle solenoid/PH controller would have to fail AND the mechanical flow valve/water return would have to fail. (full flow instead of drip into sump) I also have an aquarium PH controller supplying the AC to the CO2 Bottle solenoid controller.

[coralreefer]

I think Ron uses a Tunze Osmolator for top off.
I'm surprised the tank's still cloudy since I thought precipitation events were fairly short lived. Don't know for sure since that's one of the few disasters I've avoided. Wonder if the vinegar (carbon source) caused a bacterial bloom on top of the kalk overdose ?

[Rod Cobble]

From what I hear the Tunze Osmolator is a great unit and does its job well. One could still use the above mentioned design with the tunze instead of float switch/dosing pump. The key is the ability to control top off water flow if it is coming from a Kalk reactor, when PH gets out of hand. Of course like everything in this hobby, It gets more complex and more expensive. ;)

[firefish2020]

I'm afraid nothing failed here except for me, I failed to check the sump level prior to turning the ATO, (in this case Osmolator) back on after refreshing my media in the reactor. The osmolator pumps RO/DI from a container through the reactor where it mixes with Kalk and back into the tank. When working properly a small amount of lime water enters the tank every few hours or more appropriately as the tank requires top off. The Osmolator uses a IR sensor to maintain perfect sump level. In this case the sump had to be low or the osmolator would never have turned on in the first place.

Im sure something like this could happen to anyone in any system, it would be the same thing as the pH sensor on a Ca reactor getting stuck or knocked out of calibration, or a malfunction in a float valve. Things can, and eventually do go wrong, it's how we deal with the problems that matter. In this case water changes, and a bit of chemistry seem to have leveled the pH back out to norm.

Amy thats why I stopped using the vinegar, I was afraid it would be a good food source for some bacteria and leave me with an overpopulated slime outbreak in the end to deal with. It is possible but I think the cloudiness in an event this big, and it was big, seems pretty normal from what I have been reading, it should dissipate out in another 24 hours if Im right. To give you an idea of the concentration it looked like the tank was full of milk not water. Even after the first water change there was little effect.

BTW: Brilliant idea to use a pH controller in conjunction with the Osmolator on a Kalk Reactor, I should have did that as I have a brand new Milwaukee unit around here somewhere ahhh hind sight is everything LOL.

<b>
pH lights off 8.1
still a bit cloudy
fish swimming around and eating
a few softies look damaged
Bubble still not looking good
zoanthids trying to open
Green Candy looking much better, burned, but better
Bob received no ill effects
clams look fine
On a side note it would appear my long battle with red bugs is over. Apparently they cant survive in high pH, but then again neither can their host.
</b>

More to come...

[TheUndertaker]

Im just happy bob is ok:blown:

[firefish2020]

Im just happy bob is ok


me too.

Green leather (Sarco) looks pretty bad though. Im leaving it alone and seeing what happens. pH back to norm now.
Fish swimming and eating fine.
Much clearer now as well.
Skimmer is pulling Ca out like crazy.

It will take a while to balance back out but I think it will level off eventually.

[joyski58]

Who is Bob?

[firefish2020]

Bob is my pulsing sinularia, we called it Bob, it was one of the first in the area and is a pretty rare coral. Matt knows it's exact name, I can't remember, we just call it Bob to throw off people who may want frags LOL.

[fishmon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9056518#post9056518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by firefish2020
Bob is my pulsing sinularia, we called it Bob, it was one of the first in the area and is a pretty rare coral. Matt knows it's exact name, I can't remember, we just call it Bob to throw off people who may want frags LOL.

I have had 2 pieces I got off Matt for sale for about 3 months w/ no takers, I thought they would go like hotcakes, I guess nobody knows what they are.

Sorry to hear about your implosion, if you need anything drop me a pm. I had a major oopsie myself a little over a week ago, but w/ no deaths luckily. My skimmer cup was completely full of pure dark crap filled to the rim (G4 approx. 1/2 gallon) anyway, I meant to empty it but got busy, I was feeding some silversides to another tank and had them thawing in water, I always dump that silverside water in my tank, my corals love it. when I did it, forgetting my skimmer was full, it caused it to overflow completely into my sump until only clear water was in the cup, I could smell something awful and noticed my tank was very cloudy. nothing died but I have been fighting cyano ever since, I finally changed out my sand bed to solve the problem, I was actually bare bottom for about 20 minutes (no Amy I didn't like it, just wasn't for me).

[H.crispa]

We have your back. Let me know when you get straightened out.

[firefish2020]

UPDATE:
pH is still stable 8.1 lights off, 8.3 lights on.

Tank is finally clear today, looks like the green candy is OK.
My green Sarco is not so good though and is prob not going to make it. EVERY SPS in the system is bleached white, except my Blue Ridge, they don't turn white. I am testing Ca and Alk in the AM to see what the damage is chemically. I think the next battle will be a bacterial bloom as brown sheets of algae have started to grow on the glass no doubt due to the vinegar.

On a side note the F/W plant tank could not look better LOL.




More to come...

[phljess]

I want to take a guess at what your water chemistry will look like tomorrow. My guess is ~2.0meq/l for alk and ~400ppm cal. Tell me how close my guess was.

[coralreefer]

I was actually bare bottom for about 20 minutes (no Amy I didn't like it, just wasn't for me). Hey you were bare bottom for a couple weeks when you first set it up too :D
I truly don't like the look that much either. I DO like the control a bb gives you though. Plus I remember how hard it was to take the sand out of the tank. btw I do have sand in the 12 ;)
Must be the season for tank problems though. My tank's been having major problems for the last week. Dunno why either.
I have had 2 pieces I got off Matt for sale for about 3 months w/ no takers, I thought they would go like hotcakes, I guess nobody knows what they are.
I'd bet most LFS customers that aren't members of an internet based reef community have no idea that it's anything special. I probably wouldn't if it wasn't for RC and CVRC. Same with the name fad for zoas. You had at least 3 colonies of RPE in the $35.00 sale tank for months last spring. If you'd labeled them RPE half of your customers wouldn't have cared the rest would have paid triple the price :lol:
My guess is ~2.0meq/l for alk and ~400ppm cal I'd be surprised if the Ca is that high probably about right on the alk though.

[firefish2020]

Ca - 360
Alk - 3.5 mq/L

Clear at last.
Doing a follow up water change tonight.

Zoas are coming out of it, Rics look good, sarco still looks like crap.
Candy fine, clams to stupid to notice a change.

[Rod Cobble]

I just read an article, on this same type of catastrophe. Author suggested using CO2 to immediately bring PH down instead of vinegar. More control without the after effects. What are your thoughts?

[phljess]

CO2 gas would work but it is not as easy to find unless you have a calcium reactor. In essence Ron did add CO2 to the tank when he added the soda water.

[firefish2020]

Seltzer Water works very fast and can be controlled far better than vinegar which usually leads to an over shoot of the target pH from what I read. I don't have a CO2 tank if I did I would have injected but it would have had the same effect I believe. I put in fresh carbon in the PhosReactor which added a bit more CO2.

UPDATE:

Tank looks clear again, everyone is eating zoas are out about 75% green sarco still not doing good at all. Clams still stupid happy.

Been running O-Zone for about 24 hours now, cutting it off.

[essop3]

Talk about a bad week for reefs. I had to replace an outlet and do some rewiring after water dripped down some power cords. Lucky my house didn't burn down.

I think I have the same green sarco. It's needs to fraged if yours doesn't make it

[firefish2020]

Thanks to everyone who has helped in this issue and the offers, right now I'm just waiting to see what happens next, this thing was shoved way out of balance and I would bet it gets a bit bad before it gets 100% better. Hope I'm wrong about that though.

[firefish2020]

Last Update:


Almost every coral hit by the Ca overdose has recovered and/or is trying to.

Every SPS did eventually die though.

Added new rock and began a re-design