Middle of possible Crash.... HELP!!!!

[chrisguy]

Short story, my daughter (1.5 years old) turned off my auto top off. My wife noticed her playing by the tank and turned it back on. Based on my wife telling me the sump was down almost 1 inch, I believe it was about 1-2 gallon down. Because of this, a large amount of Kalk was added to the tank. Initially it was just cloudy. It quickly turned almost a solid white.

When I got to the tank I did an 18 gallon change as I had the water made for tomorrow. It did not help.

I then remembered that Kalk has a PH of 12 and Vinegar is used to offset, so I added a small amount of vinegar to the tank. This started to clear the water. I waited and added a little more.

The tank is now clearer, not white. I've accounted for most fish and seen all other forms of life moving about. All occupants look stressed. Lots of slimming on the SPS. Just about all corals are starting to re-open. Clam is reopening and several fish are swimming around, although the fish are breathing heavy.

I did manage to grab my Naso tank and move it to my second tank. It looks very good.

The plan is to make another batch of SW, 18 gallons, and change again in the AM.

Anything else I should do other than add child proof locks to the stand doors ??

[chrisguy]

I just tested PH and it's a little low. I have a salifert kit, and it measured 7.7. Not sure if that's the lowest it will read or the real value.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Childproofing any aquarium is a good idea. Do another water change and test your levels. It sounds like you might escape without any losses.

[Henry Colf]

I'd have to agree with Gary I myself have accidently added way to much kalk to my 55 and did a couple of water changes and made it through with no losses.Just a couple of days sweating it out waiting for the corals to open up and the fish to look back to normal.

[chrisguy]

Thanks Gary and Henry!

I've also seen the too much Kalk where the water is cloudy. This was Pure white. I could not see a frag that was less than the thickness of a Mag scraper from the glass. Think white out snow storm.

I was just looking closely at the tank and can see more life forms going about their business. The sea cucumber was eating. Shrimp and various snails were moving about. All but 1 fish has been seen. Even both Green BTA's are puffed up.

My wife said that she and my boys said a little prayer. I'm thinking that's helping a lot more than anything I did.

[thriceanangel]

Whew! Close one. Prayer helps! I hope that everything comes out OK!

[SkiFletch]

Yeah, really close, I'd hate for you to loose that gorgeous tank Chris. Great thinking on the Vinegar, probably saved your tank by doing that

[chrisguy]

Well I am happy to report that it appears that I've dogged the bullet on this one.

Lights done come on until 10am, but there is enough light in the room that most of the corals and fish are going through their normal morning process.

This AM I am still going to do the other water change and then I will run a full set of tests. Last thing I need to do is move the Naso back to the display. He's not too happy in a 30 Long at the moment.

[bjromaine]

Close one and by observing your tank closely sounds like you avoided a disaster.....I hate hearing those stories.....
good luck

[chrisguy]

Bad news!! As the day progressed the tank started to cloud up again. Tonight I find myself in the same boat as last night. The tank is cloudy, not as white as last night. Fish are all sitting on the bottom breathing heavy. I've run all tests. PH is low (7.4 or less) and the DKH is 14+ (not a typo).

I need advice and quickly. I've already done a water change (3rd one in 24 hours) and am making water for a 4th before midnight.

What can I do beyond water changes to stabilize the tank??

[chrisguy]

Forgot to mention a couple things:

System water volume is 160 gallons.

Each water change has been about 10% (16-18 gallons). This is due to a lack of larger storage container and limited supply of RO/DI water.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Change water, run carbon, keep the skimmer going and say some more prayers.

[chrisguy]

Next batch of water is mixing now.

Foxface and sixline are dead. Others appears to be hangning in there. The Naso is back in the frag tank and swiming about.

[Gary Majchrzak]

:(

[nwrogers]

Crap, this sucks. Good luck man...

[chrisguy]

Managed to get the niger trigger and move it to the frag tank. Looks majorly stressed. Hope it makes it.

The pair of goldstrip maroon clowns are hanging out near the bottom of the tank in a cave. They are swiming around and appear to be hanging in there.

Only fish left are a pair of yellow tail damsels. One was captured and moved to another tank and is swiming about. Have not seen the other.

Pink/Black cucumber is moving around as if nothing was wrong.

Corals and clam are all closed.

[bertoni]

Some seltzer water will help with the pH. I'd avoid using vinegar, if possible, since it can fuel bacterial problems. The more aeration the better, and check the SG.

I'd switch to using a peristaltic pump to add limewater, and limit its pumping rate to something the tank can withstand.

[bertoni]

What is the SG?

[bertoni]

If the tank is showing any ammonia, some Amquel might be useful.

[chrisguy]

SG is 1.025. No Ammonia detectable.

[bertoni]

Well, that sounds good. The cloudiness might be a bit of a bacterial bloom. Do you have an oxygen test kit, by any chance?

[chrisguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8923831#post8923831 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
Do you have an oxygen test kit, by any chance?

Unfortunately, I do not.

I just finished another 10% water change. I am going to stay up for about 30 more minutes and test PH & ALK after things get some time to mix.

The weird thing it that this AM the tank and everything in side looked good. Not perfect, but as if nothing major had happened. As the day progressed the tank got cloudier. Feeding time (around 5pm) activities were close to normal, a couple fish were less aggressive than normal, but nothing major. By 8pm fish were laying on the bottom of the tank as if they were gasping for air.

So far I've moved 3 fish (Naso, Foxface and Trigger) out of the tank into a separate tank. In all cases they did not move for almost an hour, just breathing heavy laying on their side on the bottom. At about the 1 hour mark they started to swim about with the exception of the foxface, that passed away.

[bertoni]

That sounds like it might be oxygen deprivation to me, likely caused by a bacterial bloom. A UV filter might actually help if it could keep the bacteria down. Something might have died, for that matter, although the ammonia level isn't that high. Any pump you could add might help a bit.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree. You added too much vinegar (for others reading this, never try to clear the tank water with acid, only bring to pH to 8.5 or so, not lower) and the bacteria consuming the vinegar likely caused O2 to be too low. The white cloudiness (just calcium carbonate) does not hurt anything, a nd will settle out on its own after a few days. It is just the elevated pH that is the concern.


For now I'd keep up aeration and treat the potential ammonia.

FWIW, I give vinegar and soda water dosing guidelines here:

High pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm

and discuss the precipitation events here:

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm

[chrisguy]

Thanks!! This AM it's looked VERY bad again. The skimmer is going insaine.

I am making another batch for a water change.

I am going to add an airstone to try and add more aeration.

[Driftwood]

The skimmer will help to remove the bloom, I would skim wet and change the cup often.

Definitely add some air to the tank, maybe put a venturi tube on a powerhead, the bloom is consuming all your oxygen.

[chrisguy]

Midday update

Upon inspection this AM all of the snails had fallen off the glass and laying in the sand, presumed dead. The two remaining fish in the tank were MIA and the tank was still very cloudy.

I added an airstone under the inlet for the return pump and pumped a ton of microbubbles into the tank. I let this run for about 1.5 hours. It appears to have helped a lot.

I've since observewd that all of the snails are moving about. I've seen a couple crabs moving as well. The best news is that I've also seen both clown fish swiming inside some of the rock work.

Many of the corals are starting to open as the light's have come on.

I am about to do a 32 gallon water change (about 20%) and will continue to make water changes until things look better.

[SkiFletch]

Any recent calc/alk tests Chris? Glad to hear things are turning around for you. Thank heaven you had that prop tank for your fish or there might have been way larger problems. Good luck with the airation and keep us posted. I'll keep saying prayers for you and your critters.

[chrisguy]

All - Thanks for the advice, encouragement and if provided prayers. I needed the moral support!!

I just finished a 32 Gallon water change. I'm going to wait for all of the water to mix together before I start testing.

For now the water is clearer and the skimmer is slowing down, so I think that's a good sign.

Trying to stay positive, it does not look like a total loss. The corals and anemones look stressed, but as I mentioned, some are trying to open.

I'm really bummed about loosing the Foxface. I was contemplating removing the other three fish (sixline and 2 damsels) so I am not too upset about them. I would have preferred that they go to a good home vs. a swirly burial.

Again, trying to stay positive, I think most of the flatworms died, or they are all in hiding.

I'll keep updating this thread as time goes on.

Special thanks to Randy Holmes-Farley!! The articles (what I understood of them) helped me understand what happened, what I did wrong and what to do next time. Hopefully I'll never need that knowledge. RC is VERY lucky to have a person like you helping us out!!!

[chrisguy]

From 1/8/07 in the PM
As the day progressed yesterday the tank got cloudier again. I tested the PH and it was about 8.0. Overnight I kept an airstone in the tank to help keep the O2 level up.

1/9/07 in the AM
I found the pink/black sea cucumber dead as well as the last sea urchin. Some how both GSM Clowns have survived in the tank through this whole thing. I think all SPS corals are a total loss. Yesterday they did not look bad, today there is massive tissue loss. The green slimer was my favorite.

I've prepared more SW to continue daily water changes. I'd like to think I've rounded the corner and things are going to stabilize soon.

[RandyO]

Hey Chris,
A very unfortunate event. Sorry to hear of it.

Keep doing everything you can. On a bad note, sometimes it takes a while for the animals to respond to the stress. Keep a close eye on everything, and remove dying animals so they don't add pollution to the tank.



It's always sad to read these threads, when the reefer finally thinks things are turning around, they find more dead animals.


Good luck, and keep us posted.

[nwrogers]

Hi Chris:

I don't think we have ever met but if I see you at any upcoming frag meets I can bring you a green slimer and a few other frags for free if you like. This is always a big fear of mine that someday my tank may encounter the same fate. It is very sad when things like this happen. I am sure once you get things straightened out with the tank that URS will help you get some of the things you lost back. Good luck!

[chrisguy]

Nate - Thanks!! It's ironic that a friend of mine that is not a URS member (hates computers) had a major meltdown from the October storm. I gave him several frags to help him get back up and running. He doesn't have MH lighting so he didn't get a piece of the slimer. He's already offered to bring over some frags.

The positive news is that the tank is clear tonight and the two clowns are swimming about. Both BTA's are still there, but are much smaller than normal. The sad news it that it looks like nuclear fallout. Everything is covered in white and or looks dead. I am going to let things rest one more day, then I am going to use a power head to blow the junk off the corals to see what has survived.

Here is a pic of the tank before the crash:
http://www.kamworld.net/salt/pre_crash.jpg

[bertoni]

Well, I'm sorry to hear about the losses. Ouch!

[chrisguy]

Now the Bad picture:
http://www.kamworld.net/salt/post_crash.jpg

[Henry Colf]

Chris, man I feel for you I have been in your shoes but on the flip side of this you didn't lose everything. Is there a way to frag your slimer and anything else you can save and put it in your other tank ?Hopefully you can save whats left.Good Luck if you weren't so far away I'd give you some frags to get you on your way.

[Chrsnwk]

Chris -

I've been folloing your tragedy as it unfolded, and I know how bad it sucks to lose beautiful things due to a whoops. Anything I have in my system I can share I'll offer up to help get yours back up an running. Let me know if you want any zoas, xenia, mushrooms, frogspawn, hammer, candy, or sps's that are fraggable. (most of mine are rather small, and still not much more than frags themselves) Come "shopping" whenever your want, just let me know. My fish room welcomes all visitors.

[SkiFletch]

Ouch, those are some rough reality pictures. If those purple zoas of yours dont come back lemme know chris, I've still got the colony you sold me :). Also if you want some of the green stripe mushrooms you sold me way back when, I've got some of those too. I don't have much but I too would be happy to frag some stuff for ya

[chrisguy]

Thanks to all for your generosity!!

Based on how things were looking last night and this morning, I believe that the Softies will pull through. I’ve observed at least 1-2 heads for each of the different zoas that are appearing to open. All of the leathers have shown some polyup extension. The encrusting corals seem to have pulled through, as I have not seen any bleaching or color changes. All of the LPS seem to be doing fine as well. The only coral loss appears to be the branching SPS. Even the anemones look ok, just smaller.

The best news I have is still that the two GSM clowns continue to swim about and were eating well last night.

The Fireworm in the fuge also died. It was 12 inches long and really cool to watch.

[SkiFletch]

Any sign of the flatworms? Maybe there's a silver lining in all this?

[chrisguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8944082#post8944082 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SkiFletch
Any sign of the flatworms? Maybe there's a silver lining in all this?

So far so good I have not seen any. Based on my luck, they will be back. Only time will tell.

[MarkKlier]

Chris if you still have any sps left I would take them out soak them in diluted lugal's solution and frag them. I have saved many by doing that...try to get them into a different system.
MK

[jfl14609]

I have some zoas and some anthelia I could frag and give to you when you are ready to help you recover

[chrisguy]

While I was at work today my wife called to say the tank looked 10x better than yesterday. This had me VERY excited to get home and see for myself. I was very happy to see that all corals were showing life, some more than others, but it was looking like most of the corals survived. It even looks like some of the skin is still attached to the Green Slimer, but I am not certain.

I ran through all of my tests and all parameters were back to normal. The tank appears to be cloudy from the large clown making a new home in the sand and constantly stirring it up.

I am going to go use a power head to clean off the "dust" and will likely move the fish back in tomorrow night.

http://www.kamworld.net/salt/post_crash_2.jpg

[belgian_waffleman]

It's amazing how different it is from yesterday. Hopefully it's all good from here on.

Good luck.

Waffleman

[SkiFletch]

Wow, yeah, one heck of a turnaround. If I may ask, was that snail graveyard front and center there before, during, or after the incident?

[chrisguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8950375#post8950375 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SkiFletch
Wow, yeah, one heck of a turnaround. If I may ask, was that snail graveyard front and center there before, during, or after the incident?
The snail graveyard is old. One of my rookie mistakes. I bought a large number of nasarius (sp?) snails from a guy on ebay. They all died within a month or so. They were not reef snails.

[chrisguy]

Hopefully this is my last update to this thread. After the water tested good last night and seeing such an improvement from the prior day I decided this AM to put both fish and the clam back in the display. Due to the different lighting cycle, this will give them a couple hours in the dark before the lights come on in the display.

I didn’t want to alert the Tang Police. I knew that having a 6” + Naso in a 30 Long is not the optimal situation. The only good part, beyond the fact that it’s still alive, is that this is the tank is where I grow extra Grape Calpura, so it was like the fish was stuck in the world’s smallest veggie buffet.

I have to share this story. Through this whole ordeal my wife has been very supportive and very encouraging. During the day today, she is having some of her stay at home mom friends over. Normally they sit in the dining room and parts of their conversation evolve around looking at and talking about the tank. She considers it a piece of art within our home. She felt very bad about the situation, so she printed the pre-crash picture and put it in a frame on the table. She wanted to make sure people saw how beautiful it was. I was very touched.