I Quit! All Fish Dead This Morning.

[joeychitwood]

This morning, every fish in my tank was dead or dying. They all looked beautiful last night when I fed them. I have no clue what is wrong. My parameters remain normal. But I'm done with this hobby.

This is the second tank which has crashed totally. My current tank was almost maintenance free. The water parameters were always perfect. I had minimal algae problems. I had beautiful specimens of clams, corals and fish, all of which had been in the tank for months, the longest being 15 months.

I quit. I've spent countless hours building, researching and maintaining my tank. It was running perfectly, and then, without warning, everything is gone. There is no way that I can start over a third time.

[beerguy]

Wow Joey. That's terrible news.

[dinoman]

:) Here you go....

http://management.journaldunet.com/diaporama/gadgets-ete/images/usb-aquarium.jpg

[Q-ball]

Really sorry Joey :(

[dc]

Oh man Joey. :( That's awful! I've had a tank crash it's heartbreaking.

[dinoman]

:) Seriously, I'd be checking anything POSSIBLE that could have into/on the tank. Anything that goes into an aerosol in the room (air fresheners?), anything that could possibly have gotten into the air, anything that could have been introduced into the tank by you or somebody else. If its the exact same as last time there is a possibility of it coming from a common source.

[amcarrig]

Any chance that your tank is located near a boiler or other CO2 producing equipment?

[PoukieBear]

Awww, Joey, sorry to hear that. I've had my tank crash and I know what it's like to watch everything in your tank go downhill.

[2fishy]

Oh Joey, I am so sorry to hear about your fish! :( I understand your frustration! Please don't leave us! We promise that we won't talk about "that" subject, and seeing that it is the Lounge, we are not bound to talk about "that" subject!

[PoukieBear]

Ya, you don't need a tank to hang in the lounge. I'm tankless, Nina is tankless, who else is tankless at the moment??

[cwegescheide]

Awww Joey that really is horrible. I'm sorry for your misfortune. There has to be a common reason for your tank melt downs. Atleast I would think. You have a power outage? Malfunctioning equipment? do you have little kids that might have feed a half bottle of fish food?

Shame on you Dino... (it was funny though)

[VoidRaven]

I know how you feel Joey....mine was worse though because *I* indirectly caused it. My first major crash was caused by an over-population of flatworms. Dosed with Flatworm Exit and the massive die-off fouled the water and killed off all but one fish...still have that fish too. But I almost quit just after one.

So sorry to hear about this bizarre crash. Even if you don't restart I hope you at least figure out what caused it just for some peace of mind.

And don't leave the Lounge!!!

[petoonia]

So sorry to hear about your tank. I know it can be so dissapointing, and frustrating to have your tank crash. I agree with dino it sounds like something got into the water.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Did you have a power outage last night?

[Nina51]

joey, i feel your pain. so sorry to hear this.

[zenguitar]

That is horrible Joey, so sorry to hear that.

I don't have a tank right now because when I moved into my new house I chose not to since I knew I would have so much else going on. Next house, will be an in wall tank :)

But, I maintain my parents tank which we are planning a complete tear down and rebuild of in spring.

but again, I'm so sorry to hear that. There's got to be a reason, a drop in O2 or a voltage surge, something.

[Aliie]

Nurse Aliie is also very sorry to hear about your pretty little friends. I have had it happen to me as most have. You know they say the 3rd time is the charm. I'll change all your appointments and go and get you the blue, yellow and purple pills and then you can rest on the couch until you feel better.

[PUGroyale]

Reefkeeping isn't for everyone... it's a difficult hobby ;) just 10 years ago there were only a handful of reefers keeping SPS successfully. Keep your chin up :D I'm sure you'll be back

[crp]

So sorry Joey. Don't give up hope yet though. I've seen stuff I thought was dead, come back to life.

Do a huge water change and see what happens. See if you can narrow down what caused it. Something get into the water, stray voltage, etc.

Good luck.

[Random Aquarist]

Does that mean you're leaving?:(

I won't let you. Nina won't let you. Aliie won't let you. Alex might let you. BUT I WON'T!

[daFrimpster]

my condolences. Hang in there!

[Sk8r]

You've got all the resources of the forum to try to figure this out. We're willing to help: it's a sickening blow, but something caused this, and we can find out what it was.

[Muttling]

Yeowwwww



Might I suggest you test your water for nitrites. The old crushed coral and plenum approaches are notorious for holding pockets of nitrites then wiping out the tank when the pocket gets disturbed. I don't know what you're set up is, but my suspicions are a poisoning (e.g. ammonia glass cleaner or bleach cleaner) and a nitrite spike.

Typical tank wipe outs from "old tank syndrome" aren't along these lines and occur over a matter of days/weeks.

[Sk8r]

Housekeepers can be a real problem. A new miracle cleaner. Something he/she brings in.

[Kahuna Tuna]

That really sucks Joey, really sorry to hear about it. :(

[BrianD]

Joey, I'm very sorry to hear of the loss of your fish. I can't even imagine how bad that would feel. I am a little confused about your corals and clams. Are they gone too?

[Orchids]

I had a similar, but not total experience over the past couple of weeks. Several seemingly heathy corals began to bleach and die. I lost a couple of inverts and a couple of fish. All the while my parameters remained constant and water quality did not suffer. I am starting to recover, but I am not as enthused about replacing items soon. Still no explanation as to why this happened.

[Orchids]

I thought I had page two all to myself. Just another devastating blow.

[MandM]

Sad news Joey. I hope you'll stick around and dare to try again later. It does sound like a power outage during the night.

[Anemone]

Don't give up Joey!

Unfortunately, occasional meltdowns seem to be the price we pay for our hobby. Without any further info on what happened to your tank, I'd venture a guess that it was a cascading oxygen-deprivation device... of course, that's usually my first guess when I encounter a mass fish die off over night.

Good luck Joey, and keep us posted!

Kevin

[joeychitwood]

My first tank crashed when the temps sky rocketed one night and killed all of my fish, setting off a hair algae outbreak. It was slow but inexorable.

Everything in my 54 corner tank was in beautiful condition last night. It's in a formal dining room, with no aerosols, sprays, cleaning agents or other pollutants within sight. This morning, disaster had struck. There were no power outages during the night.

I have a 1/2" to 1" sand bed which I keep very clean. I haven't added any new rock, corals or fish in months. I skim with a Remora and run carbon 24/7. The temps have been stable at 78-79 degrees.

My SPS corals look OK so far, and my clams appear normal right now. The two surviving fish are covered with a fine white powdery coating. They're struggling to breath and are laying on the sand.

I've done one water change, and I'm making new RO/DI water constantly for further changes. (No one in my small town sells RO/DI water.) I've changed the carbon and now am just watching the tank hour by hour.

[BrianD]

That has to be the maddening part, not knowing what caused the problem. I am glad your corals and clams look ok.

[Sk8r]

Lord, JoeyChitwood, I'm sorry. That's beyond strange.

[dinoman]

:) Any chance of an electrical current through the water? Probably not though as I'd think you'd be able to feel it if it was enough to kill fish but I seem to remember reading something about few people having stray electrical currents through their tanks and it stressing things out. And lord knows with all the electricity around our tanks there isn't a shortage of places they could come in contact!

[Misfit6669]

I'm with Dino, sounds like a bad heater or pump might be leaking juice into the tank. Be careful when checking and very sorry to hear about your looses.

[Scuba_Dave]

So sorry to hear this
I had a CA overdose over a year ago & my tank ha snot fullt recovered yet. I lost 3 clowns, but the bigger fish were OK
I hate losing even 1 fish :(

[JmLee]

Sorry to hear about the crash man. I bet ya you will get the itch again. Maybe 1 month from now or even maybe 3 years from now, its all matter of time tell you get the itch.... :D.

[Kahuna Tuna]

The two surviving fish are covered with a fine white powdery coating. They're struggling to breath and are laying on the sand.

That sure sounds like marine velvet which can wipe out a fish population very quickly. I guess if there is any good news it's that it shouldn't harm any inverts. How many fish did you have? It would seem to me that velvet would need to be introduced if it is indeed velvet.

[joeychitwood]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8880844#post8880844 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kahuna Tuna
That sure sounds like marine velvet which can wipe out a fish population very quickly. I guess if there is any good news it's that it shouldn't harm any inverts. How many fish did you have? It would seem to me that velvet would need to be introduced if it is indeed velvet. I also thought about Marine Velvet. My last fish addition was two months ago. I had six small fish, clowns, Royal Gramma, Lawnmower Blenny, etc. It appeared so fast.

I've done two water changes today. The clams and corals still look OK.

[tgreene]

A few years ago, I had a TOTAL wipeout when a UV sterilyzer bulb shield cracked and allowed water to flow freely around the socket while my wife and I were out of town for a weekend... When we returned home and saw everything dead, I put my hands in the tank to get a water sample, and was damn near electrocuted, even though I had grounding probes in both the display and the sump. The current was so strong, that it actually ate through the probe wires, rendering them useless.

Then when we moved from Illinois to the New Orleans area in March of 2005, we ended up losing everything during the move. Once reestablished, that b|tch KATRINA showed up and wiped us all out!!!

Relocated to Arkansas and set our tank back up, then had a near total wipe-out this past February due to a Kalk overdose that ran the pH to over 10+ for several hours, making it look like milk... Five water changes in as many days, and the tank still looked like Nuclear Winter for weeks... To look at our tank today, you would think it's been running for 10 years solid.

Keep the faith, because tomorrow is another day!

[MarineFiend]

I agree Joey, I also felt near giving up till I got talked into sticking with it.

I crashed $5K worth on my tank when I inadvertently F'd up on a adjustment to my calcium reactor only to watch as my corals literally fell apart. Some of them I have for years and the just melted.

Acros that when I touched them the disintegrated to dust. $1K in fish all died.

I almost sold all my stuff and gave up. A wise man once told me that to endeavor is only the beginning.

Where would America be if they gave up after 9/11

Chin up sir, hold yer head up high, find faith and on to the next level of reef keeping - the next plateau is where you belong.

[2fishy]

Joey that is such a bummer. If you don't have chlorinated water, I don't think you have to worry about the RO water for emergencies, meaning if it is a life or death situation. I think if things are going bad quickly you can just mix salt with tap water and the rest can be corrected with the RO water later. Just a thought, in case things start heading south quicker then you can keep up. But hang in there, your in my prayers!;)

[UH_OH_5_OH]

Joey......we're kinda in the same boat....you're fish died and last few weeks I've felt like I was about to !

I am sooooo terribly sorry to hear about what happened ! That really blows ! I have family in NYC and New Jersey....if you find out someone tampered with it.....let me know !

I know a guy !

[Aquaman]

Joey, Sorry to hear about your fish! I've had 2 total tank crashes myself and this past one was from a move. My tank sat empty for months with the rock in a trash can. I finally put the rock in the tank and for another 6 months thats all I did! No lights, no sand, just rock and water. I finally added sand during this past Christmas weekend.

It doesn't cost anything to keep the tank, perhaps your local reef club might help you get some fish.

[Jamesurq]

Horrible Joey. Sorry to hear this. I've been there - as most of us have.

That said, you're in a profession that deals with great losses and can put this into perspective and continue on.

Consider it a learning experience and get back on the saddle...

[clavery]

Awww, doc, that just stinks. But please don't leave the Lounge. We would miss you terribly - and all your interesting work stories!!!!!

[Jerry W]

Very sorry to hear this. I would have figured Marine velvet as well, but it kills very quickly and with no new fish additions, it's unlikely. Maybe one of the newer fish was harboring something that remained latent for so long and finally let loose. If your corals/clams are okay, let the tank go w/o fish for a couple months. If all remains stable, try adding something small and hardy. Doesn't sound like a total loss.

[O'Man]

Sorry about your fish. These things happen though. I have been through a few of them myself. Two different multi-day power outages (one named hurricane Floyd) a Rio pump meltdown, cracked heater as well as dumb things I have done.

If it were me & the inverts were ok, I would check heaters, pumps, ect for electrical leakage and replace anything I had doubts about. I would also put a poly filter in my system to help clean everything back up and replace as much water as I could stand. If things remained ok, I would add fish in a month or how ever long it takes to be sure any marine oodinium (velvet) has died off. It is possible you had something stress your fish and they could no longer fight the stuff off. I have been through an outbreak of it and it spreads fast. That powder look makes it likely.

Good Luck

[Random Aquarist]

Not to sound unsympathetic, but I think that you're very lucky that you only lost fish in a 54g. You just need to wait for a couple weeks to let the whatever-it-is (if it is indeed a disease) die off and then replace the dead fish. Be glad that you didn't lose everything and that the things you lost are easily replaceable(I know that sounds mean).

[Freed]

If you lose the corals I'll give you some frags of what I have or am able to frag. Just let me know. You've helped me in the past and now it's my turn to return the favor.

[Philwd]

Sorry to read that. Something to consider. A friend in town had a major die off from a dead sponge caused by a shifting rock. He tested for everything and didn't figure it out until he moved the rock to take out the dead. There are a lot of toxins that get released we can't test for.

I'm not thinking velvet since the life cycle is 3-7 days. You would have noticed it sooner.

[wizardgus®]

Really sorry to hear that Joey. It really hurts I know. I came back from Sturgis 2005 to find my softie/anemone tank was soup. Literally. 96 degrees and had been without water movement for 4 days. The house reeked, most everything in that tank was close to 3 years old, most wasn't even identifiable. Worst was my M. doreensis of 3 years and mated pair of hosting clowns. And my CBB that was the size of a sunfish. :( Still feel bad about it.

I had a sponge crash in a different tank in 2003, it is amazing how fast that will kill fish. Didn't lose any coral in that one. Not sure about the white covering you describe though. Although I was there and working on the tanks when that one happened so the dead were removed fast and the few survivors were placed into other tanks. So I don't know if they would have developed the white over night.

Terrible hard to take though, hang in there.

[griss]

Dang Joey, I am truly sorry to hear this. As someone who has had two tank crashes in the last several years, I can sympathize with you:(

[sfaribault]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8877809#post8877809 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PoukieBear
Ya, you don't need a tank to hang in the lounge. I'm tankless, Nina is tankless, who else is tankless at the moment??

After 2 crashes and 3 moves, Mine are empty in the basement.

Steve

[joeychitwood]

I was up very early this morning to go to work, so I did not check the tank today, but my daughter called to tell me that the tail of my last little clown fish is sticking out of one of the mouths of the Red Open Brain.

I found my Emerald Crab munching happily on the Royal Gramma last night. So, it appears that one creature's tragedy is another's food bonanza.

The corals, clams and inverts all appear healthy so far, so I'm probably still in the reefkeeping business for now.

[2fishy]

Remember the old movie where the Semi went whacko and started killing people? And actually wasn't there a movie where a car did the same thing? Well, maybe the inverts and corals went crazy that one night and over took the fish!:eek2:

[VoidRaven]

The movie was called "Maximum Overdrive" I believe....Stephen King film from 1986. Semis, cars, lawn mower, etc...all went nuts and started killing people.

[tgreene]

Yep, Maximum Overdrive and Christine... :eek2:

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Hang in there Doc.

Sorry to hear of the loss. Don't jump ship just yet though. You've still got some thing alive in there so keep at it and help them out. Be sure to watch your prams, Amonia, Nirtites as they may peak after the crash.

Did you skimmer go crazy? Could it have been a coral spawning? That's what happened ti mine a few years back, best we can figure. Coral spawned, skimmer went crazy, all fish died from lack of oxygen, corals came back better than ever.

Good luck and hope you stick with it. If you need some frags, I've got a few I can send when your ready. ;)

[Misfit6669]

Also one called The Car from 1977. This movie scared the hell out of me when I was a kid.
http://ai.pricegrabber.com/muze_images/Video/DVD/28/138328_118x160.jpg

http://www.scifilm.org/images/thecar1.gif

[Anemone]

Yeah, I remember "The Car." Scared me as a kid too! :D

Kevin

[TheBimbo]

:( Joey, TheBimbo is real sorry to hear about this tooo!!! I've gone through a big crash and lost darn near everything as well... We had to keep going and have been doing really good for now... I really don't do much with the tank anymore, other than the routine water changes and the calcium drips here and there, I feed every other day or so and that's about it ... I'm knocking on some trim work right now though, b/c you know that as soon as you say it, something usually happens...


I wish I had some frags to send to ya, but the ones that I got from Cheryl and Void are still growing, I've lots of yellow polyps I could send ya some of those :) ... And a huge hairy shroom if you'd like one of those!!!


Ohhh, and you are NOT allowed to leave The Lounge!!!



Christy...:)

[tgreene]

Joey, I can send you some frags, and more than just a few!!!

My tank is a mutant coral growth factory that quite honestly has to be thinned out about as often as most peoples' fuges, so if you would be able to pay the overnight shipping from 72401, I'll gladly send you plenty of nice sized pieces of various softies, LPS and limited SPS if you're interested. I'm also quite sure that I could easily get a couple of the others in our local reef club to kick in as well, because that's the way we do things down here.

I would cover the shipping, but I've been extremely ill for the past few months (Hemiplegic Migraines throwing random strokes and extremely frequent seizures) and have been unable to work since the first week of October.

This is how I was able to re-establish my system post-Katrina... Through the love and support of others.

Anyways, it's a standing offer!

-Tim

[otolith]

If I could frag my fish, I'd help you restock. Unfortunately, I can't give you any frags either at the moment as I'm tankless. :(

Honestly, with my hectic schedule, it's kinda nice to not have to worry about it. :) And I like the idea of planning a smaller tank.

[joeychitwood]

Thanks so much for the offers of frags everyone. Tim, I'm sorry to hear about your hemiplegic migraines. They're very scary, especially at first.

My last clown is dead this morning. The only remaining fish is my Lawnmower Blenny, and it looks pretty healthy so far. The corals, clams and inverts appear unaffected. I'm off today, so I'm going to do more water changes and look for dead bodies.

Here is my apparently vicious Red Open Brain coral taking advantage of the crash yesterday:

http://images.mdlindquist.com/red%20brain%20lunch%20004.jpg

[Muttling]

The corals survived but not the fish. I'm suspected an overnight night drop in dissolved oxygen levels. How do you monitor your tank's pH and have you ever tested a few hours after the lighting is off?


As I understand it (and I could be wrong on the exact details), some algae's can go into an aerobic mode in the absence of light and will start consuming oxygen while respirating CO2. Thus, it's not uncommon for tank DO levels to drop at night and pH to drop as well. This isn't so much of an issue for corals since their symbiotic algae maintains a super saturated D.O. level within the coral's structure.

You might consider testing your pH tonight before you turn the lights off and again in the morning before the lights come back on.



P.S. - Corals are carnivorous animals and will eat fish when they can catch them so it's no surprise that you have a "killer open brain." Borneman has a picture of a mushroom eating a perfectly healthy Bangii Cardinal in his book Aquarium Corals (which I highly recommend BTW.)

[mike4271]

I just can't stop thinking of your job Joey, I realise that you wear gloves and take all precautions possible, but is it at all likely you could have introduced something to the tank, and something that would only affect fish ???

[mike4271]

And after reading Mutt's post, do you have gas heating, do you cook with gas at all ?

[joeychitwood]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8894041#post8894041 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mike4271
I just can't stop thinking of your job Joey, I realize that you wear gloves and take all precautions possible, but is it at all likely you could have introduced something to the tank, and something that would only affect fish ??? It's a possibility. Lately, I've been breathing harder, and I have a fine white powdery coating on my skin and eyeballs! I've also had an irresistible urge to brush up against rocks. :D

I have no gas sources in the house. I have carbon monoxide detectors in the house which always register "zero."

[mike4271]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8894312#post8894312 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by joeychitwood


I have no gas sources in the house.


When did Brian last visit with you ???

[mike4271]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8894312#post8894312 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by joeychitwood
It's a possibility. Lately, I've been breathing harder, and I have a fine white powdery coating on my skin and eyeballs! I've also had an irresistible urge to brush up against rocks. :D

I have no gas sources in the house. I have carbon monoxide detectors in the house which always register "zero."


I am sure that when a patient comes in and says "Doc, I have this ich, dead fish are not the first thing that springs to mind ;)

[joeychitwood]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8894339#post8894339 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mike4271
I am sure that when a patient comes in and says "Doc, I have this ich, dead fish are not the first thing that springs to mind ;) Unfortunately, the smell of dead fish is not uncommon in the ER exam room. :eek:

[mike4271]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8894350#post8894350 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by joeychitwood
Unfortunately, the smell of dead fish is not uncommon in the ER exam room. :eek:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, not that thread again:eek: :eek2: :eek1:

[otolith]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8894350#post8894350 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by joeychitwood
Unfortunately, the smell of dead fish is not uncommon in the ER exam room. :eek: I really didn't need to be reminded of things like this. :twitch:

[dc--insert a puke smilie here please]
http://images9.fotki.com/v182/photos/2/28482/376550/428181-vi.gif

[roons]

two things to say,

im sorry about your tank (hope i never have to go thru it )

i love ozone

[Aliie]

:rollface: :fish1: :lol2:

Hi Roons!

[roons]

does thoust have an admirer?

[Aliie]

Roons has an intrigued woman who can not seem to figure out the Roons!

[otolith]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8896187#post8896187 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by otolith
I really didn't need to be reminded of things like this. :twitch:

[dc--insert a puke smilie here please]
http://images9.fotki.com/v182/photos/2/28482/376550/428181-vi.gif Hey, Thanks! :lol:

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Hey Joey,
I agree with Mutt. Sounds like a low D.O. level. It can be caused by a number of things. In my tank, it was a coral spawning that caused it. I watched in sadness as my fish lay on the bottom of the tank, gasping for air and there was nothing I could do. All of the corals were fine.

Good luck with it and keep plugging away.

[tgreene]

Are you by chance running a Calcium Reactor..? I've witnessed firsthand on more than 2 or 3 occassions what can happen when a solenoid "burps" and releases an excessive amount of CO2 all at once... The fish will be starved for Oxygen, with their gills having turned blood red and generally facing outward.

As in your case, the corals are generally fine however.

[roadracer]

Dinoman, that was cold...lol.