white spot on tail

[Delta_zeta]

So when I had my girl down in front of the tank eating (FINALLY!!) I noticed her tail had a little white spot on it. Can anyone tell me what that is? And what I need to do if it's something bad?

[waterfaller1]

Oh no..I tried two beautiful horses in my fuge a couple years ago,they were WC.I hope that is'nt the same thing as mine had.It was a flesh eating bacteria...it started at the tail. It took them both pretty fast.

[DanU]

I would be concerned with the spot! If this is flesh eating bacteria, aka Marine Ulcer Disease, it needs to be treated quickly to not only prevent loss of the horse, but to keep it from spreading to the horse(s). The sooner the diagnosis and appropriate treatment, the higher the odds for survival.

Do you have a hospital tank? Any meds on hand? Quick access to antibiotics?

Short term, I would move the seahorse to a quarantine/hospital tank with good airation. Wouldn't bother with bio filtration as proper doses of antibiotics will wipe it out. Water changes will be needed daily during treatment. Slowly lowering the temperature down to around 69 degrees may help slow down the bacterial growth.

If you have neosporin or triple antibiotic ointment, I would apply that to the wound/ulcer. To do this, wash your hands thoroughly, wearing gloves, gently lift the horse so the wound/ulcer is out of the water and pat dry with a paper towel and place a small amount of ointment on the wound. Then let the seahorse go or place it back into the tank. Remove the gloves and wash up again.

There are some differences in recommendations as far as which antibiotics, but most all recommend a wide spectrum antibiotic. Neomycin and Triple Sulpha are often recommended and we have a high percentage of success with them.

Dan

[Delta_zeta]

I don't have a hospital tank set up right now. we had to take it down because it had a leak and now i'll have to find a place to set one back up because we have so many tanks running right now but i'll do so. I have triple sulpha in tablet form, is that what you're talking about? If not where can I get them? I assume when you say neosporin, you're not talking about the generic OTC drug that we can get in pharmacies.

[luvabunny]

Neomycin and triple antibiotic ointment you can buy in tube form from Wal-Mart are the exact items Dan is talking about. You can put them directly on the horse as stated above.

Triple Sulpha is a tablet which dissolves in you tank. It is a good anti-bacterial for external diseases. It won't hurt to do both (the neomycin and triple sulpha) at the same time.

You will want to make sure your Q tank is pristine. If the bacteria breaks the skin, it will be open to any infections. This could kill her faster than the spot on her tail.

Your girl is probably not going to like all the attention and will probably pout and sulk. It shouldn't hurt to put the male with her in the Q tank for company, and try to keep her eating all you can. It might be a good idea to order some SW ghost shrimp, or red shrimp from OR to keep plenty of movement in front of her in hopes she will eat well and keep her strength up.

Good luck with your beautiful horses!

[Delta_zeta]

was just reading the library on seahorse.org and it said that other symptoms of the bacteria are cloudy eye, rapid breathing and swelling (I assume in the affected area) but she's got nothing other than that tiny white spot on her tail. I'm still going to quarantine her as soon as I get the needed antibiotics, but wondering if those symptoms are only present when the bacteria is over a larger area of the body? Also, will the spot on her tail grow back over after she's treated?

[Delta_zeta]

oh, I posted right after you luvbunny and so just got to read your post. When I had to use triple sulfa in my tank before w/ my reidi's a long time ago, it was just a powder that dissolved in the tank like you said, so I can actually buy triple sulfa in ointment form?
If that's all I need I can pick it up today and get the tank running. Are there anyother antibiotics that I need?

[DanU]

April is correct, by using both the neomycin and the triple sulpha together it creates a syngerstic effect.

If this is indeed a bacterial infection, as I suspect, it could be still localized and you won't see systemic symptoms. This is good!

Normally a localized area like this if correct will grow back if it doesn't go to far.

I wouldn't put the male in with her unless he is showing symptoms and needs to be treated as well. My fear would be if this is contagious, longer exposure could make him susceptible to it as well.

I prefer a 10 gal tank for hospital tanks, but that is not the only option. In a pinch, even a 5 gal bucket can work. 10 gal tanks are nice because you can observe and dosing is easy.

There are several brands of Triple Sulpha available. Most are fine. If you go with the Neomycin, keep in mind the standard loading dose is 250 mg and you will need enough to replace 50% of that each day after a water change and standard treatment is for 10 days.

Neomycin can be found in some LFS, but most brands do not have high enough recommended dosing. There are places to order online, but you will need to have it expressed in order to have it in time. Sometimes you can find it in a pinch in Farm Supply Stores in a liquid form either called Neomycin or Biosol.

You guys are posting faster than I can type.

The Triple sulpha is normally in powder form. It is different than the triple antibiotic ointment. Most of these have neomycin and sometimes other antibiotics in them.

Dan

[Delta_zeta]

oh! almost forgot...my male is pregnant. how is that all going to affect him if I put him in the q-tank w/ her? I don't want to lose his babies...

[Delta_zeta]

seems like we posted at the same time. I guess that leads me to ask another question then DanU...so I need to use Triple Sulfa? Or triple antibiotic ointment? I already have Triple sulfa that's in powder form and I have always just dropped it in the water and let it dissolve.

I won't put the male in w/ her in that case. I hav a 10gal stand I can set up beside their hex so he can at least see her and vice versa

[DanU]

Quite possibly it could effect him. If he is not showing symptoms, I would hold on moving him. If he should show symptoms, then I would treat regardless of the pregnancy. Keeping him and having more fry is better than losing him and hoping you have success with the fry.

Dan

[DanU]

so I need to use Triple Sulfa? Or triple antibiotic ointment?

Both! The ointment is a topical treatment and can be helpful in localized infections. The Triple Sulpha is for a bath and used in the water. You are right about it dissolving in the water. I dissolve in a cup of water and mix well and then add to the hospital tank.

Dan

[waterfaller1]

I hope I am wrong. I tried the antibiotic ointment as well..to no avail.
My horses acted normal,and showed no other outward signs.Do you have a local forum of friends that might have a hang-on filter and a small tank you could borrow?

[DanU]

The use of a topical only may or may not be sufficient depending on many factors such as the bacteria involved, the degree of the infection, the general condition of the seahorse, etc. I would assume it isn't and thus the recommendation of a wide spectrum antibiotic as a water borne formulation. IME, the combination of the two has a higher success rate.

Dan

[NanoLurker]

Originally posted by DanU
The use of a topical only may or may not be sufficient depending on many factors such as the bacteria involved, the degree of the infection, the general condition of the seahorse, etc. I would assume it isn't and thus the recommendation of a wide spectrum antibiotic as a water borne formulation. IME, the combination of the two has a higher success rate.

Dan

listen to Dan! get all three and be ready to use the neomycin and triple-sulfa together in your QT tank. watch your seahorse carefully, keep an eye on your ammonia level in QT tank. i battled a systemic bacterial infection with my WC female comes - we're not out of the woods yet but i'm keeping my fingers crossed. if you notice any abnormal breathing, lethargy, stiffness, post asap for guidance.

i don't want to scare you, i just want you to be prepared. get as much food in both of them as possible and be ready to act quickly. hopefully, this will not spread and your beautiful horses will be okay.

[Delta_zeta]

I can't get neomycin anywhere around here w/out a prescription so I'm going to have to order it online. Can I start treating her w/ the triple sulfa and the ointment and have the neomycin overnighted and add it as soon as it gets in? Or is it going to harm her to start adding it later?

[Delta_zeta]

ok, I'm looking online and there are a dozen different neomycin products. Is it just Neomycin sulfate? Neomycin-Polymyxin-Dexameth? I'm getting dozens of different results when I search for it online...

[DanU]

Yes, I would start with the Triple Sulpha.

Neomycin Sulfate is fine. Here is link to one place that carries it: http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products2.html

Let me know where you get it from and/or brand and I will try to help with dosing.

How is the wound looking this evening? Same or worse?

Dan

[Delta_zeta]

actually, found Biosol in a small farm store in Boise. So i've got everything now and setting up a tank to put her in. will an airstone suffice rather than a HOB filter?

[DanU]

Airstone will suffice.

On the Biosol, it comes 200 mg/ml. You can use 12 ml as the loading dose if you are using the 10 gal. When you do the 50% water change add 6 ml afterwards with 1 Triple Sulpha.

How is the wound looking?

Dan

[Delta_zeta]

it's a little tiny bit bigger i think but she won't let me get a good look at it.

[DanU]

Let's keep a close eye on it. The bath meds can take 24 to 48 hours before they slow this down. If we can't arrest it, we may need to take another course or meds.

Dan

[Delta_zeta]

i'm getting the tank to a reasonable temperature now before i switch her over. mixing up the antibiotics and have them ready to put into the tank. I assume it's ok to put the ointment on her tonight also?

[NanoLurker]

what temperature is your QT tank at? i slowly lowered mine to 68 when i started my girls treatment (mother nature was extremely kind to me we, had a nice cool spell here when i had to start).

like dan said, it will take a couple of days to kick in so don't be alarmed if you don't see anything happening. also, make sure to check ammonia twice a day.

[Delta_zeta]

Will do. she's in the tank, antibiotics administered and going back in a min, once she's calmed down to put the ointment on her tail. She's definitely one ticked off horse at me right now...I'm sure if looks could kill...she would have struck me dead by now