Cooking Rock Questions (Bomber? SeanT?)

CrazyLionfish · #1 07/07/2006, 04:03 PM

I've gotten so fed up with all this hair algae it's almost made me want to leave the hobby. I have very little fish/coral in my 40 gallon reef tank now, 3 corals (favia, frogspawn, plate coral) and 2 fish (small carpenters flasher wrasse and false percula clown). I have a AquaC Remora protein skimmer and a Whisper HOB filter that I put various types of filtration media in and a couple sponges. I have about 45 lbs of LR and 40 lbs of LS. Would I be able to remove all that LR at once and put it into a tub following this process (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=437342 the 10th post down, SeanT describes the process. I'd like to try to go BB too, so could I remove that a few days after I remove the rock? And should I add something like a PVC pipe that the fish can sleep/hide in if there is no rock/sand in the tank for a month or two? Also, a majority of the hair algae is under the Metal Halide of my Aqualight PRO HQI metal halide/PC/lunar light combo, I've had the bulb for about a year, would replacing it make a difference? I have a RO/DI system as well as a big bucket of salt so making all the water required for this process shoudn't be a problem.

Thanks for any help you can give me, I'm very excited to find something that isn't too hard to do and should work!

RichConley · #2 07/07/2006, 04:14 PM

replacing the bulb wont make a difference. Nutrients drive algae.

Theres one main cause for algae: inadequate nutrient removal. Basically, your skimmer isnt doing its job well enough. (or you dont have enough flow, so your skimmer isnt getting the stuff)

All cooking rock does is set you back to zero. It will not solve any problems. If you dont deal with the nutrient export/import issues, you'll just have hair algae again in six months.

So, cook your rock, but make sure you fix the problem.

CrazyLionfish · #3 07/07/2006, 04:22 PM

OK will do. I think mainly my powerheads aren't doing anything because I have the little adapter on them, hard to explain but it allows me to control direction, this reduces the flow greatly, but I don't want the powerheads to fall into the sand and create a huge sandstorm (they have a couple times), so if I go BB, I will be able to take these off and this will I think more then quadruple the flow in the aquarium, the adapter spreads the flow out and it doesn't feel powerful at all.

So basically the goal is to set it back to 0 and then stay at zero by fixing the problem while cooking the rock. Because if you just fix the problem the rock is probably too bad to be fixed on its own?

RichConley · #4 07/07/2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CrazyLionfish

So basically the goal is to set it back to 0 and then stay at zero by fixing the problem while cooking the rock. Because if you just fix the problem the rock is probably too bad to be fixed on its own?

The rock will fix itself on its own if the inport/export issues are taken care of, it just takes LOTS of time. You basically have to starve the algae to death (which is pretty much what cooking does...only in a more efficient way)

CrazyLionfish · #5 07/07/2006, 04:27 PM

OK thanks. Anyone else have any input on those other questions I asked above? I know I asked a lot lol

Aquaticman74 · #6 07/07/2006, 04:50 PM

Matt,

I agree with Rich. Even if you do cook your rock, you're going to have to make some changes via flow and/or skimming. Going BB may make things worse without making those corrections. Your high nutrient problem may turn into a high NO3 problem as well.

If you cook all the rock at once, keep a close eye on your NO3 and be vigilant with water changes. I would put some pvc or something in there for the fish to sleep in.

What are you using for flow?

outy · #7 07/07/2006, 04:51 PM

lighting does make a big difference and it is time to change bulbs

i had a breakout of HA and put new bulbs in and it was gone in a week.

i just changed my year old ushios and it was a night and day difference

you do need good flow in your tank as stated above its a fine balance of flow and a sandtorm

CrazyLionfish · #8 07/07/2006, 06:04 PM

I have 3 Maxijet 900s in the tank right now, but as I said the adapters takes A LOT of their potential flow away. I do plan on doing a lot of water changes etc.. while I am cooking all the rock, and possibly add some more HoB filtration. Another alternative is to leave the sand in until the day I was re-adding the rock, do you think that would work better then removing it all at once?

I don't know how I have such high nutrients either, I only have 2 fish both about an inch each and feed once daily and none reaches the bottom, it is all eaten. I don't add many extra supplements that would contribute to that either. I got my RO/DI system about 7 months ago, but it hasn't made much of a difference.

CrazyLionfish · #9 07/07/2006, 06:07 PM

And outy, about the lighting. For my fixture I have a choice of getting 10000k or 20000k, which do you recommend? It's a double ended HQI 150 watt bulb and it's a Coralife fixture so I planned on buying the replacement bulbs of Coralife brand, unless someone knows a better brand that makes double ended HQI 150 watt bulbs.

CrazyLionfish · #10 07/08/2006, 11:55 AM

What do you think?

sherm71tank · #11 07/08/2006, 12:12 PM

CrazyLionfish, I had the same hair algae problems that you did. I cooked the rock and went BB with lots of flow and high power skimming. Still no HA and I do less maintenance now than before. Going BB and cooking my rock not only kept me in the hobby but now I enjoy it more than ever!

CrazyLionfish · #12 07/08/2006, 12:30 PM

Thank you very much! That is very encouraging! Could you maybe give a summary of the way you did it? Like all rock at once with sand? Or what?

sherm71tank · #13 07/08/2006, 12:42 PM

I took out all the rock and put it in a Rubbermaid garbage can with an air stone and pump and a heater.I had a Dolphin DP-1200 I think in the bottom for circulation. Every few days to a week or so I swished the rock around and did a large water change. As far as the sand went I just took it all out at once ( what a mess that made! ) I put all the corals that would fit on the bottom of the tank and ran my lighting schedule normally. I cooked my rock for just short of two months. AS permitted I pull the algae off the rocks when I saw it as I went. When I stopped seeing the algae at all ( after about a month ) It was hard not to throw it back in the tank but I let it go for 3 more weeks cause I knew if it just came right back I was out of the hobby. It worked for me and I'm glad I did it!

CrazyLionfish · #14 07/08/2006, 10:32 PM

Awesome, did you just have your skimmer running while your fish/coral/inverts were in the tank with no rock/sand to keep everything in balance? I only have those 2 small fish and three corals, I have the AquaC which fills up about every week and I think one of the main issues is the flow (which going BB will fix, eliminating the threat of sandstorms allowing me to remove the adapters and even get more powerful powerheads) and the HoB. What changes do you think I should make while cooking the rock to make sure the tank remains algae free once I re-add the rock.

sherm71tank · #15 07/09/2006, 12:44 AM

I would continue using your skimmer without a doubt. Personally if when you say Aqua C you mean the Remora then I would get a much better skimmer. The main thing with BB is that you have to get the crap out of the water and fast because there is no sand bed to store it in. That means a powerful skimmer and high flow in the tank. No offense to the Remora fans out there but it is not fit for this duty. I had the Remora Pro and couldn't get consistent results with it. I also don't think a Whisper HOB filter is going to do you much good. I recommend going with a sump and the best skimmer you can afford to put in it. I prefer to use filter socks to trap large detritus and change them once a week or so.

CrazyLionfish · #16 07/09/2006, 12:15 PM

Yes, I do mean the remora, I have been getting consistant results with it, but I don't have that much cash to spend on a really great new expensive one. And I mainly just used the Whiper HoB to put filtration media in, 2 sponges to help take out siphoned detritus (sp?) and algae and an ocassional phosban (if needed) or carbon. I tried to make my own sump before, didn't work well. See, since I have all this algae my parents think I am not taking good care of the tanks, but I believe I am, it's just I can't get rid of this algae! So they're not really willing to fund a new sump or a really good skimmer. Unless you know a website where I can get a cheap quality sump.

Aquaticman74 · #17 07/09/2006, 12:22 PM

For a sump you can use a 20 gallon tank or something economical like that. If you don't have one laying around, maybe someone local does for cheap.

sherm71tank · #18 07/09/2006, 12:24 PM

Agreed, a fish tank would work just fine. I just use a Rubbermaid container as a sump.

latino277 · #19 07/10/2006, 10:22 PM

I feel bad now.... I have a 29g sump and turbo floater 1000 sitting behind my sofa.... I will more that likly never use it again!!!! I'm wondering what the shipping would be?

CrazyLionfish · #20 07/10/2006, 10:40 PM

I do have a 20 gallon tank sitting around but how do I properly connect it and get water down to it etc.. and build the correct baffles. Won't it require a pump and overflow box and either PVC pipe or plastic tubing?

latino277 · #21 07/11/2006, 04:24 PM

check Melev's website. he has tons of configurations on DIY Sumps.

CrazyLionfish · #22 07/11/2006, 04:47 PM

I've tried to make some of them, but I did not have the correct equipment to cut the material so it cracked big time. Don't really want to buy a expensive saw just for this purpose, maybe I could borrow a neighbor's, if any have one.

Aquaticman74 · #23 07/11/2006, 05:16 PM

This is a 40 gallon tank. You only need 3-5x turnover through the sump. You could use a small in sump pump, heck even an mj 1200 might work. Baffles aren't a neccessity. You wouldn't have to cut or drill anything, but you would need an overflow box.

CrazyLionfish · #24 07/11/2006, 06:03 PM

I'm just not sure how I would get the water level in the sump to the level I'd want it at, can't say I'm very knowledgeable when it comes to this kind of stuff. Would I just have to get an overflow box, figure out the GPH of it and then get a return pump with the same GPH and then add as much water as I wanted and then the water level would stay constant in the sump? And what would the purpose of a sump with no baffles etc be, I wouldn't think you'd be able to make a refugium out of it because the sand/ etc.. would go into the pump and fly all over with the incoming water. Would it just be to increase the total water volume of the tank? and be able to put some filtration media into it?

CrazyLionfish · #25 07/11/2006, 06:04 PM

But do you all agree that I should cook my rock? Because I'm getting water ready now, just trying to figure out if I should indeed do it. Should I try to hook up this sump before I cook the rock or would it be ok if I implemented it while I was cooking the rock. Just want to start things moving in the right direction!