Mimic octopus

DeltecRules · #1 05/10/2006, 11:23 PM

Have you guys seen the vendor blue zoo has a mimic octopus for sale. Not cheap.

Mizu · #2 05/11/2006, 08:19 AM

meh
Im not a fan of keeping mimics
too unkown just now
hell they might be endangered and we just dont know it yet

jfw60 · #3 05/11/2006, 12:10 PM

Whats blue zoo's website?

Anthony597 · #4 05/22/2006, 10:24 PM

i think www.vividaquariums.com does to

reefnewbie54321 · #5 05/23/2006, 08:54 PM

Good chnce its a wonderpus but I cant I.D it, hopefully an expert will chime in.

http://bluezooaquatics.com/livestock...fo.php?id=2657

$400 plus shipping for a almost adult octupus (they grow about 13" and its already 10") and as far as I know octopuses in general have a pretty short lifespan. I asked on another octopus dedicated forum and the average period they survive in the home aqaurium is 9 months, 2 years being the longest some one posted.

If this is a wonderpus it also means its an endangered species that SHOULD NOT be colected so by some one buying this you are supporting the greedy impirters who will probably import more thanks to there succsess via you. (not directed at anyone here just in gen to anyone thinking about buying it if it is I.D'ed as a wonderpus.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gonodactylus
Highly likely that it was wunderpus, not a mimic. The common name for either species before the first reports of mimicry was the "Philippine Zebra Octopus". Now anything with red and white stripes is called a mimic. Dozens of these animals have hit the market in the US and the UK in the past few weeks. As long as there are people willing to pay $500 a crack, they will continue to be collected until they are gone.

These animals live in muck and sand, habitats that are easily disturbed or destroyed by pollution and shell dredging. They also are relatively rare in the field, so it is possible for a "collector" to remove all of them from a bay in a short period.

The only way that people are going to stop collecting and exporting them is if the market dries up and that will only happen when the retailer who pays a wholesaler $125 for one expecting 300% profit is left holding the bag. But I think we all know that there are enough "aquarists" out there that have to have the rarist animal, no matter what the cost or risk to the species being sold.

Probably the only effective action that an individual can take to correct this is to tell the shop owner up front that since he/she is trading in rare and delicate species, you will no longer purchase anything, stock or supplies, from this business. If enough people follow through on such action, it would work. However, I doubt have a sufficient number of people have the conviction to make it work.

Several of us have been commenting on this problem with mimics and wunderpus for two or three years and they are still being sold - only now for even more money.

Roy

LTJGAlex · #6 06/21/2006, 12:13 PM

Sounds cool to me. I'd only recommend it for octo-care experts though. And I'm not one.

Thales · #7 06/22/2006, 10:01 AM

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone at retail prices because that only tells the market that the market will fetch that much money for it and then more will be collected.

JCDelbeek · #8 06/23/2006, 02:08 AM

Quote:

If this is a wonderpus it also means its an endangered species [/B]

On what do you base this claim? WHO has formally listed this as an "endangered" species?

JCD

Thales · #9 06/23/2006, 10:01 AM

The researchers I have been talking to in the area have been telling me that they are seeing less of them (flaymboyants too). So, are they endangered or not? Don't know. It seems prudent to me to err on the side of caution though - 'specially for an animal that doesn't do well in most hobbyist tanks.

JCDelbeek · #10 06/23/2006, 01:44 PM

Calling an animal "endangered" carries numerous meanings, the primary one of which is that there is sufficient documented evidence that this species will go extinct if not protected, and hence it receives "endangered species" status ... I would rather see you say they are "thought" to be threatened.

Remember also, that researchers may only be spending the majority of their time in one area and that this species is relatively widespread though perhaps not common, so while its numbers may be declining based on less frequent observations in the field in one area, it doesn't mean this is happening over its entire range of distribution. So it would more accurate to say it may be LOCALLY threatened.

It would be very helpful to know how many of these animals are actually showing up in the trade. I see availability lists from the US and Japan on a regular basis and it is not a common item and never has been, and when they are available, it is usually a single specimen. I don't think the market for these things is that large to be honest. As for Metasepia, most that I see in the trade come from Japan and most of these are captive reared.

Nevertheless, no tropical cephalopod really makes a great aquarium animal for a hobbyist for several reasons IMO:

1) Their lifespan is very short.
2) Many are only active at night.
3) Many are secretive and rarely seen.
4) You have no idea how old the animal is when you receive it so you could have it for one day or two months.
5) Most are venomous to some degree; some are deadly.
6) They ship poorly and suffer high mortality rates during shipping.
7) Most are captive caught.
8) Most people lack the knowledge to correctly identify what they have and hence, provide proper care.
9) Hatching eggs and rearing cuttles is the best option for them, but most people can not supply the large amounts of high protein content live food they require for the first few months of growth.
10) Some get too large for an aquarium or need tanks of several thousand gallon to really do well e.g. many cuttle species and squid.

Keeping animals in captivity is a privaledge, not a right, and should be treated as such, and IMO most cephalopods just don't make sense for hobbyists to keep. The ONLY exception I would make would be for those animals that are captive bred, stay small, are day active and are not deadly.

Just my 2 cents worth. :-)

Aloha!
Charles

Thales · #11 06/23/2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JCDelbeek
Calling an animal "endangered" carries numerous meanings, the primary one of which is that there is sufficient documented evidence that this species will go extinct if not protected, and hence it receives "endangered species" status ... I would rather see you say they are "thought" to be threatened.

I agree, thats why I didn't say it was 'endangered'.

mucktopus · #12 07/01/2006, 07:30 PM

"Remember also, that researchers may only be spending the majority of their time in one area and that this species is relatively widespread though perhaps not common, so while its numbers may be declining based on less frequent observations in the field in one area, it doesn't mean this is happening over its entire range of distribution. So it would more accurate to say it may be LOCALLY threatened."

I agree completely. Our impressions are completely site-biased. I base my opinions on Lembeh mainly because that's where they were discovered, that's where most are sighted, and lthat's where I've seen all but one in the wild. CDelbeek is right that mimics and wunderpus are widespread, and we have no idea how abundant they are. In many places (including Lembeh) their soft-bottom habitat is trawled, and it can be threatened by reclaimation (who cares- it's just mud, right?)- by a long shot the aquarium trade isn't its only threat. If they may be declining in their best site, then what about the others? Are these just natural recruitment booms and busts we're seeing (after all, W and M were only first discovered less than 20 years ago)? Sightings elsewhere appear to be rare. This may be a sampling error- Lembeh is one of the (if not the single) most popular muck dive sites around. Or this may be because they really aren't abundant in other places.

The bottom line is, we still have a lot to learn about their populations, so let's hold off until we know more.

Regardless of their population, wunderpus makes a really boring and delicate pet.

JCDelbeek · #13 07/01/2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mucktopus

Regardless of their population, wunderpus makes a really boring and delicate pet. [/B]

I agree ... they meet most of the criteria for NOT keeping a cephalopod as I mentioned previously. I have heard of one or two success stories with keeping a wunderpus for a few months ... but this is definitely not what I would call a great aquarium animal especially when you consider the expense to acquire them versus the return on how long you get to enjoy it in your tank.

Aloha!
JCD

Bret61081 · #14 07/26/2006, 10:48 PM

If anyone is interested in one...my LFS has had one for abour 3 weeks now and its eating glass shrimp...If your interested shot me a PM!

Thales · #15 07/26/2006, 10:52 PM

How much are they asking - not that I think anyone should actually buy it because it sends the message to the industry that they should collect more of them.

Bret61081 · #16 07/26/2006, 10:55 PM

actaully it was ordered for someone but they never turned up for it. He was asking 300 but he would rather sell something for cost then loose it in his store...its an amazing animal but really shy. Comes out about once a day(atleast while people are there) and will eat a few glass shrimp , make a few trips around teh tank and go back under the rocks...