I say, Good Job Teacher!! these kids nowadays are insane!

MWAJDA · #1 10/10/2003, 01:42 PM

CORAL GABLES, Florida (AP) -- A teacher and her aide were arrested on child abuse charges for allegedly punishing first-grade students by binding them with tape.

Five students said volunteer teacher's aide Ivonne Nieves bound the children at various times, and that teacher Vonda Christie saw what happened but did nothing, police said.

The first complaint to police was made September 11. All five 6-year-olds said their ankles were taped together, their arms taped to their lap or their heads taped to the blackboard. One girl said her mouth was taped shut.

(check cnn!)

oceanarus · #2 10/10/2003, 01:47 PM

I'm sure if the parents didn't raise such hellians, they wouldn't have needed to tape the kids up. Blame the educators all you want, but it always goes back to the parents.

MWAJDA · #3 10/10/2003, 01:53 PM

as soon as people stopped beating their children, America began to go down the tubes

oceanarus · #4 10/10/2003, 02:03 PM

There is obviously a difference between beating and discipline, respect for authority, and instilling overall good behavior in a child.

It's the people that can't see the difference that have the worst behaved children.

jimwat · #5 10/10/2003, 02:04 PM

This is one of those things that you think about but never actually do. My wife has been teaching K-6th Special Ed. students for 10 years and she sometimes has to get a stern with her kids, but nothing like this. Perhaps these students were WAY out of control, but for something like this to happen the teacher(s) involved obviously had no classroom management skills what-so-ever.

oceanarus · #6 10/10/2003, 02:05 PM

Oh and don't get me wrong, I am not a big fan of Government schools and their indoctrination programs either.

GregDoug · #7 10/10/2003, 02:23 PM

Not to point out the obvious.... but what gives a teacher to restrain a 6 year old. It is obvious that a group of young kids were not a threat to themselves or to others of serious bodily harm.

I think they should arrest the teacher, throw her in jail for a month or so, and the parents should sue her until she becomes bankrupt.

Come on, taping a classroom of kids because you are a horrible teacher is not discipline.... its lazyness.

jimwat · #8 10/10/2003, 02:53 PM

Doesn't it seem odd that this was not reported sooner? How could something like this be going on and no one else in the school know about it? It couldn't. Where was the Principle when this was going on?

My guess is that this teacher and her aide have no business being educators in the first place. The principle needed warm bodies to fill a vacancy and took whomever he/she could find at the time. The other teachers and staff were most likely fully aware of the deficiencies in this classroom and decided that it was not their problem. The princple probably did not want to know, as it would mean that he/she would just have to go out and find another warm body. Believe me, I hear these stories all of the time.

oceanarus · #9 10/10/2003, 03:24 PM

I apologize for not stating this earlier: What those teachers did was wrong, dead wrong and went way over the top and deserve to be punished. I was reacting more to the title of your thread than the content, which are miles apart.

The point I was trying to make was that there should be no need for discipline in schools. That is not their job, they are there to educate. Every second that is spent disciplining an unruley child is a second that is wasted in not education the others. Are you satisfied with the amount that children are taught in schools? Don't they need a little more dedication to teach from the staff?

The job of disciplining and teaching a child propper behaviour rests solely on the parents, but sadly more often than not, it is not being done.

Once again, what those teachers did was wrong! I just wanted to make sure people were aware of what the reality of the situation can sometimes be.

MWAJDA · #10 10/10/2003, 03:34 PM

you are right, however a lot of parents a cracksmokers.....drugdealers....and worse. other parents simply don't care. parents are not going to get better. things will continue to get worse (as long as i'm not in power) and teachers will continue wasting their time with discipline issues. this is why, i say, good job! these children were not harmed, and don't tell me they've suffered emotional trauma, children these days can be downright possessed. again, this is because parents stopped beating them. MANY kids need to get beat down.

jimwat · #11 10/10/2003, 03:50 PM

Quote:

oceanarus said
there should be no need for discipline in schools

I think you are overstating your point here. Even the most diciplined kids are still kids. I was given plenty of discipline at home, and still found it necessary to "test my boundaries" at school. Why do you think substitute teachers are notorious for getting abused by kids (who may be perfect angles for their regular teacher). I remember being in a 4th grade class that made a substitute cry. Kids need clear bounderies from whomever is entrusted with their care (at home or away). So, SOME degree of discipline will always be necessary.

MWAJDA - any teacher who has to resort to binding up a 6 year old to control them is an idiot and should not be allowed to function in ANY capacity with children under their care.

oceanarus · #12 10/10/2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MWAJDA
as soon as people stopped beating their children, America began to go down the tubes

I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you meant this sacasticly (they need to create a font for sarcasm, it is so hard to convey in print).

Anywho.... I don't believe beating is the answer either. Most of the time you just create a more rebellious, hatefull child that does not respect you or will ever obey you.

jimwat · #13 10/10/2003, 03:56 PM

Quote:

however a lot of parents a cracksmokers.....drugdealers....and worse. other parents simply don't care

One other note - my wife taught at a school in the middle projects in west Nashville. The parents of children were all of the above. She NEVER had to resort to any physical restraint.

oceanarus · #14 10/10/2003, 04:00 PM

I still stand by the 'no need for discipline in schools'. If a child is mis-behaving, call the parent to come and get their child and only bring him/her back when he/she is ready to learn and behave propperly.

But the problem the schools run up against is that the student does not fear their parent being called because the parent will not back up the teachers. They will go to the school with the attitude of 'what have y'all done to my poor precious Billy/Suzie' not with the attitude of 'what has my child done wrong so I will know how to propperly punnish him/her'

spham · #15 10/10/2003, 04:01 PM

I have a 2-yeard old child myself. If i found out his teacher did this to him, I would go up to the school myself and do the same thing to teacher with duct tape. I don't want anyone else beside my family and me to discipline my children.

BrianD · #16 10/10/2003, 04:02 PM

MWAJDA

Lighten up. I hope you never have any position of authority around children with your attitudes. It is irrelevant to me what kind of parents these kids have. The parents weren't the ones treated like rabid dogs.

MWAJDA · #17 10/10/2003, 04:02 PM

maybe the insanity is mostly in california then, i don't know
but the kids i unfortunately come into contact with are evil

BrianD · #18 10/10/2003, 04:09 PM

Geesh.

BarryF · #19 10/10/2003, 04:10 PM

Discipline in the schools....

Not anymore, I'm afraid. Most parents don't know how to physically discipline their children and I'd say very few people can effectively discipline other people's children. I am for physical discipline in the schools as per my experiences with it, but in today's society it just won't work. I attended a Catholic school for the bulk of my elementary schooling and the nuns were free to discipline as they felt necessary. It only takes a few whacks with a ruler or quick tugs on the hair to understand what you, the student, is doing there and why you shouldn't be acting up. It was also understood that physical discipline would be a last resort - it took a lot to get physically disciplined.

As I said, though, too many people would take it too far, and for this I agree that physical discipline is not something that can be implemented in the schools.j

Oh, and this teacher needs to be put in a mental asylum for a year or two. Taping kids up? That is a little cooky.

spham · #20 10/10/2003, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrianD
MWAJDA

Lighten up. I hope you never have any position of authority around children with your attitudes. It is irrelevant to me what kind of parents these kids have. The parents weren't the ones treated like rabid dogs.

Think about it, a grown adult doing this to a helpless child. What would you do if this is your child? Ofcourse if my child was acting up at school I will discipline him. I will understand if the school discipline his too. But tapeing my child up is going too far. What if I did this to your child and its my way of discipline.

vester_72 · #21 10/10/2003, 04:17 PM

Hey, these kids MUST HAVE deserved it

I would have just locked them in a closet.

MWAJDA · #22 10/10/2003, 04:19 PM

taping a kids head to a blackboard is insane.....i spent the first 9 years of my life in oklahoma. i was spanked by the principal many times with a wooden paddle. looking back, it was a great deterrent, when i got home my parents would spank me again. with out these spankings, i would prob. be in jail right now.

crab0000 · #23 10/10/2003, 09:43 PM

Quote:

I still stand by the 'no need for discipline in schools'. If a child is mis-behaving, call the parent to come and get their child and only bring him/her back when he/she is ready to learn and behave propperly.

And what do you do if the parent says I can't come right now and just brings the kid back the next day? We have absolutely nothing to threaten these parents or kids with. And now we have the whole No Child Left Behind crap.
Steve

spham · #24 10/10/2003, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spham
Think about it, a grown adult doing this to a helpless child. What would you do if this is your child? Ofcourse if my child was acting up at school I will discipline him. I will understand if the school discipline his too. But tapeing my child up is going too far. What if I did this to your child and its my way of discipline.

BrianD,
Sorry, thought you were refering to me. Thought MWAJDA is some kind of acronyms. I do agree with you. There is a difference between beating and discipline your child. The tearm beat down to me would fall into child abusing.

GregDoug · #25 10/10/2003, 10:41 PM

MWAJDA,

Even in a mixed up state like CA, taping a kid down into a seat, taping his mouth shut, and taping their head is a cause of action as it is in every other state. For battery to occur, you need to have an element of intentional contact, which is clear we have here. I agree that parents, and 20 years ago, teachers, did spank children and when done properly, is not harmful (which I know is debatable but I will give you this). What would have happened if the 6 year old with the taped mouth would have become upset and vomitted? Do you have any idea what this does in lungs?
On another note, I have seen people who have graduate level degree's and have been specifically trained to 'control' kids who are a threat to themselves. I have also seen these kids with injuries from the restraints. I do not know about CA, but we in Ohio have a very strict plan that limits restraints on children and even then is only done in serious times.
Now, I must agree with you on some distorted level. I think parents have a right to spank their child, offer time outs, smack the childs hand, and so forth..... AS LONG AS the form of 'discipline' does not leave a mark.

By the way MWAJDA, I hear shaking kids really hard makes them behave better too... especially those 3 month olds that cry too much.