Upgrade to 180 Gallon

[Crosby]

This Christmas I have upgraded to a 180 All-Glass Megaoverflow. The dimensions are 72 x 24 x 24 inches . This setup will be a FOWLR. I currently have most of the equipment purchased and it will be delivered in the 2 weeks or so. I will have a 47 gallon sump, 30 gallon refugium (where I will grow chaeto) and 200 lbs of premium Fiji liverock. I am still deciding on what protien skimmer and RO/DI unit I should buy.

The protien skimmers I am considering are:

Euro-Reef RC180 External Protein Skimmer
Deltec APF-600 Protein Skimmer

Which one do you think I should choose? I want a plug and play type of skimmer. I am not interested in modifying the skimmer afterwards.

Which brand of RO/DI unit do you recommend?

Coralife
Kent
Spectrapure

In regards to stocking, I will be adding 3 or 4 fish from my 90 gallon.

They are
1) Flame angel (4 inches)
2) Yellow Tang (4 inches)
3) Longnose Hawkfish (3 inches)
4) Blue Devil ( 2 inches) (Gets along with everybody currently) * Might trade in*

I am considering adding the following:

5) Purple Tang
6) Scribble Foxface
7) Cuban Hogfish
8) Bird Wrasse
9) Gold Stripe Maroon clownfish
10) Harlequin Tuskfish
11) Humu Humu Triggerfish (But probably not after researching there unpredictability with aggression towards tankmates)

So that's 11 fish in total if I keep my blue devil and get the Humu Humu Triggerfish. I was considering large angels and tangs like the Emperor angel and Naso Tang but decided after research that they belong in larger aquariums. So I decided to go with these semi-aggressive fish instead of large Tangs and Angels. I understand that they are messy eaters and will require powerful filteration.

Do you think that this is a reasonable bio-load for a 180 gallon aquarium with my filitration that I have mentioned previously. Are there any suggestions on how to improve this stocking list?

[bsagecko]

i would not keep the trigger and i would trade in the blue devil.
Your filteration system should be able to handle the load as long as you keep up with the water changes.

I dont know about the tusk, bird wrasse, or cuban hogfish

[Crosby]

Thanks for the response bsagecko

I will probably skip the Humu Humu Triggerfish because of his aggression and for their habit of moving liverock and changing up the aquascaping.

[jay2525]

I like your list. I would skip the bird wrasse, and the trigger, and go for the emp....

[lesleybird]

I will share with you how I stocked my 190 gallon 6 foot by 2 foot by 26 inch tall (custom height as I need to be able to touch bottom but wanted taller than standard 180). I have a lot of live rock and my tank has been up for 5 months after taking the rock from my 90 gallon and adding a lot more.
Currently I have a Majestic angelfish, a Scribbled angelfish, a Scotts fairy wrasse, some purple and red fairy wrasse, a pair of true percula clowns, a lawnmoore blenny, an orange spotted blenny (really beautiful), a cleaner goby who does a much better job than any cleaner shrimp. My final fish is to be a Regal angelfish that will be comming in a week or two. I chose the least agressive types of large angels that only grow to a medium size of about 10 inches instead of the 18 inches that a lot of other angels like the Emperor and the Queen etc. grow to. The 4 and a half inch Majestic was in there first, and for a week or so he chased the 3 and a half inch Scribbled angel a little but no torn fins. After a couple of weeks they are getting along well. I hope Regal gets along well when it comes as this will be my last fish. It only gets to 10 inches also. There are a couple of other angels that stay in the 10 inch size also so let me know if you want me to look up their names as I am at work and my angelfish book is at home. My Scribbled is named Squiggie and she is so cute she will eat out of my hands and comes up to the glass to look at me. Lesley

[Crosby]

jay2525

Why skip the bird wrasse? Initially I wanted an Emperor Angel but doesn't it require expert's experience and grow too big for a 180 gallon at full size.

[lesleybird]

Yes, an Emporer angel gets to 18 inches which in my book, and most reasonable people's is too big for a 180 when full grown. Other angelfish that stay at 10 inches include the Goldflake, and the Meridithi false personifier, and one more from Africa that I need to look up. Maybe you are only interested in the Emporer and not any other angels. I think the most beautiful is the queen angel but it grows to 18 inches or larger also. Not good in a 24 inch wide tank. I personally don't do tangs as I do not like the razor thing on their tails that can harm other fish, and do not like that they often get ich because of their soft skin. Lesley

[Crosby]

Thanks for the feedback Lesley

You got me interested in considering an angel and changing my stocking list to go more in a peaceful direction. I would appreciate if you could answer a few questions about these smaller angels (10 inches or less).

Will they eventually outgrow my 180 gallon?

Are there any that are particularly hardy?

Are they high maintenance fish and require expert care?

Will they get along with my flame angel and yellow tang?

[Crosby]

I was researching and came across the Maculosus (Map) Angel - Pomacanthus maculosus, it seems to be a low maintenance fish and also very interactive. It grows to 12 inches. Would this Angel do well in 180 gallon for the long term? I would revise my stocking list and plan it around the Pomacanthus maculosus.

[lesleybird]

Says in my angelfish book that the map angelfish gets to 19.5 inches. Not good for a 180 gallon. Forgot to mention that I also have a Potter's angelfish (pygmy) and a royal gramma in my tank. Another fish that you may like is the Pomacanthus Chrysurus angelfish to 12.9 inches that has more of that stately big fish look.....saw one at a site the other day. Let me know if you like this fish and I will try to find the site. The fish is rare from Africa and is about $300. My Majestic was good with a Goldflake that I had but I think it had worms from the beginning as it had long stringy poop from day one and stopped eating after a month. The Maze angelfish to 9 inches is one that would do well in your tank size and all these angels can be mixed with tangs and other smaller fish and pygme angelfish. My favorite fish book is Angelfishes and Butterflyfishes by Scott W. Michael that I used from of Amazon.com. It tells one how to mix large angelfishes. I believe that one can mix these medium size angels in a 180 or 190 etc. The ones I have are from the least aggressive groups of the angels. Lesley

[lesleybird]

Hi, Any angelfish that did not grow more than 10 to 13 inches would not outgrow your tank. The ones that get to 16 or 18 inches or so would. My Majestic is a relatively hardy fish as is the Scribbled. All of these large angels ignore the pygme angels and wrasses and other small fish. Get the book that I mentioned as it can answer all of your questions. The most important thing is to buy your angels from a good source that buys only from suppliers who do not use cyanide to catch the fish. Best to buy them in the 3 and a half to 5 inch size as the really big ones are too used to the ocean to adjust well, and the tiny ones can be more delicate so I have been told. Make sure the fish is eating before you buy it as sometimes they are reluctant to start to feed, but not always.
The Regal angelfish is suppose to be one of the more difficult
fish to get to feed and keep but I have had success with other large angels so I thought I would try one. Lesley

[Crosby]

I appreciate the research and tips you have given me. I have already ordered the book and look forward to learning more about Butterflies and Angels. I have decided to change my stocking list that I mentioned above because I want to be able to have a cleaning crew and don't want all the live eaten of my live rock from fish like the Bird Wrasse.

I was thinking of stocking the following fish:

Longnose Hawkfish
Flame angel
Yellow Tang
Atlantic Blue Tang
Yellow-Eye Kole Tang
Pakistani Butterfly
Orchid Dottyback
Occelaris clownfish

On many websites they list angels like the majestic and scribbled as delicate fish. How senstive are these angels to getting ich or any other sickness. I wlll probably get the Euro-Reef RC180 protien skimmer. What type of filtration do you use to keep water quality high? Do you keep your salinity lower for your angels? I prefer stick to the hardy to moderate species of fish. I know that the Pakistani Butterfly is one of the hardier butterflies. Based on your experience with larger angels such as the Majestic do they have higher or similar water quality demands to pygmy angels such as the flame and potter angel? Good to know that there are angels that won't outgrow my 180 gallon. Just want make sure there are also some disease resisant angels to choose from.

Crosby

[fish cowboy]

Just a suggestion. I keep a Tang tank, which currently houses 6 tangs together. Make sure your tank is established with algae growing in it plus the live rock. They graze all day long especially the kole Tang. They can be territorial, so you may want to get young tangs and put them in at the same time before they stake there claim to there territory in the tank. I have had good luck in my Tang tank but in another tank I have I have a bristletooth tang that is mean and killed another Tang I tried to put in. I am into fish and have multiple tanks just for the reason to try different combinations of fish. A good choice for your tank would be a hippo tang. They are normally laid back and rarely get aggressive. The atlantic blue and the yellow tang may have issues.

[Crosby]

Mistake - Didn't mean to press submit

[lesleybird]

Hi, Someone asked about ich and the angelfish. The large angels I have found have been able to survive ich. I have had ich in both my old 90 and my 190 tank before and never lost a Majestic to ich. I have had the Majestics with ich before and they survived it (had my first one for three years and then he got poisoned by a buffer that had a contaminant in it and killed all my fish overnight in my 90 gallon). Had ich in my 190 at first a couple of months ago and it has been gone for the last four months although it is probably lurking. All the fish survived the outbreak including the Majestic when the tank was new....got a cleaner goby (cleans better than any shrimp), added Kick Ich every other day for about 5 or six weeks and added a 55 watt UV with a slow 400 gallon per hour flow rate to keep the ich under control. Haven't seen any ich in about four months and I added the Scribbled two months ago and he did not get ich.

My Majestic did not like it when I added the Scribbled and chased him around for the first week or two but did not bite his fins. The Scribbled took a submissive role and let the Majestic stay the king of the tank. For the first two weeks the Scribbled would stay out of the Majestic's way by hanging out high under the water return things. After two or three weeks the Majestic got used to her and they now are fine together. The Scribbled now can eat right next to the Majestic without any aggression from the Majestic. I will let you all know how it goes when I add my last angel which is to be the Regal. The supplier just got some in and they are still in quarenteen.
The Regal angelfish are suppose to be the most difficult to keep of all of the large angels. Look at the pictures of the tank of the month (go to home page to see the reef tank) as this person has almost all of the medium sized angels that I listed and are the more mild mannered ones that only grow to 10 or 12 inches and would all work in a 180 with two or three of them. It is best if you can add them at the same time to a mature tank. These angels can go in with pygme angels, tangs and other smaller fish without problems.

The large angelfish seem not to get ich as easily as the soft skinned tangs as with the heavy scales the ich has a difficult time attaching to their body. With my Majestic in my current tank not only did he survive the ich outbreak but the tank had a mini recycle when I was on vacation after the tank was new and only about 2 months old. When I came home the nitrite was up. I did three 20 percent water changes to get it under control. This was when we were still battling ich and the person caring for my tank was putting in the Kick Ich while I was gone. The Majestic had white patches on him when I returned so I took him out (he is trusting and my husband and I caught him with a net). Put him in a 30 gallon rubbermaid for a week with some Furian 2 anibiotic and changed out his water evey 2 to three days to let any ich fall off his body and not have enough time to hatch again to re-infest him (think he got a bacterial infection from the bad water with nitrite spike). Put him back in the tank with the other fish after a week when his body was clear of the white patches and he has been doing fine for the last three months. I think the Majestics are pretty tough if you maintain reasonably good water quality. If one can keep a flame angel alive then one can easily keep a big angel alive. Most that I have listed did not seem to be delicate . My flame angel was the only fish that died with the nitrite spike when the tank was new. The spike was probably also because when I was on vacation for 8 days the skimmer was off for the Kick Ich med (might have allowed the spike and I was not there to test the water to take early action). The Kick Ich med which is reef safe is only moderately effective, but with the UV at the same time it worked. Lesley

[Crosby]

Hi fish cowboy, I was planning on adding my flame angel and 4" yellow tang from my 90 to my 180 gallon once it is cycled. There be 200 lbs of premium Fiji live rock and half of that will come from my 90. After 6 months once the tank and new live rock is established I will add my 2 new tangs and butterfly. Would you agree that by adding the Kole tang after the yellow tang has been established, that it will reduce the aggression on the Kole's part because he'll be the new guy? I've seen aggressive Kole tangs before, but overall would you say that they are peaceful fish? If they are overly aggressive, I will interchange the Kole tang with a magnificent rabbitfish or a scribbled rabbitfish. I think that the hippo tang does look better than the Atlantic blue tang but is not as hardy. The hippo tang is more susceptible to get ich so that's why I won't get it. The temperament of the Atlantic Blue Tangs is peaceful. If I buy a juvenile Atlantic Blue Tang, I don't see any problems with my Yellow Tang because I never had any aggressions issues from him and the tank will be spacious and have lot's of rock work. It will be fun to see ABT change colors.

[lesleybird]

Sorry.... missed your question about filtration. I have two overflows in the corners of the 190. I use the extra large bioballs in the overflows about half way up to help with the crashing sound of falling water. I place these micron filtration sheets on top of the bioballs to catch the gunk. I wash them in the washer with a cup of bleach, (no soap), and detox them with some water and antichlor before putting them back. The large bioballs do not get too dirty because of the filter pads and the larger size. I do not use these bioballs for their wet dry functiion as I have a large amount of live rock, although I guess they may help some. I have a 50 gallon sump with a filter sock and then two Mag 9 pumps for return water flow. I have a Coralife skimmer (the largest one) because it is easy to use and came with the correct pump. I have a Aquamedic 55 watt UV that rests on top of the sump and is run with a pump that puts out about 400 gallons per hour at 1 foot head (takes a slow flow rate to kill ich swimmers).

Got my acrylic sump off of Ebay and it is just a tank. I really need to find a way to solve my micro bubble problem.....did not know how to install baffles in there but could not find a sump ready made with baffles that was big enough for all of my pumps and skimmer. I also put about three or 4 bags of Biochem zorb in the sump and replace every 6 weeks (when I am not putting any Kick Ich in the tank). I also put these things called Algone (little packets) in the sump and replace every week or two. They absorb nitrates. I have an inch to an inch and a half of 1 t 2 mm. agronite sand. I use this size as I like to vacuum it every two weeks with my Phyton thing I use to do 20 percent water changes every two weeks. I ordered a worm population from Indopacific Sea Farms to help eat the waste in the sand. I can see them at night with a flashlight. Not too many get sucked out when I lightly vacuum the sand bed.
Lesley

[fish cowboy]

I agree putting the Kole Tang in last would be a good idea. A juv. atlantic blue could be put in your tank at the same time. Your yellow Tang would have to split his aggresiveness between the two new Tangs. He will probably show off a little bit and defend his sleeping quarters but should calm down quickly in that size tank. Hippo tangs for some reason can be prone to ick. I have seen it. I have one with a orange shoulder, sailfin, powder blue, naso and stripped puffer. They are shy by nature but the one I have likes to eat and swim with the other Tangs. They are from all different families of Tangs which seems to be the key in keeping them. I could never throw my achilles Tang in the tank. My powder blue would go on a rampage. He did not like the hippo initially because it was blue but realized it was different and now they get along well. I hope all works out in your Tank. I hope you keep your 90 gallon as backup if it doesn't.

[lesleybird]

Since you like tangs you could put a couple of tangs with one of the medium angelfish......you can tell that I am an angelfish lover. Looks like Cowboy is a tang guy. The full grown Hypo blue tangs swim so fast that I doubt that one would even be happy in a 6 foot tank. I have seen the full grown ones swim in this about 30 foot indoor saltwater pond at the LFS and it can cover 10 feet in a second flat. That is why I don't have one as I don't think it would be fair to keep one if you could see what I saw...my husband agrees after seeing them swim. The angels are a lot slower swimmers than the Hypo Tang (don't know how you spell it), and don't seem to mind the smaller swimming area. Lesley