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  #1  
Old 08/04/2005, 06:12 PM
hearsegirl hearsegirl is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wayzata, Minnesota
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Making live rock structures steady?

It seems that I have no talent when it comes to aquascaping. How can I make my rock structures less wobbly? How can I make the tank layout look good? Any pointers?
  #2  
Old 08/04/2005, 06:17 PM
Reefugee Reefugee is offline
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Location: Davis, CA
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Epoxy is your friend. I use it to stablize some of my rock structure. Once the Epoxy dries out - the rock are stuck together pretty well. Epoxy comes in grey and white.

Beware that using Epoxy will make your skimmer go nuts for a few days. Just turn it off for a couple of days - and everthing will be fine.
  #3  
Old 08/04/2005, 06:19 PM
downlimit downlimit is offline
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what brand or type of epoxy would you recommend, also would you recommend using epoxy to glue the skeleton part lps corals to the live rock?
  #4  
Old 08/04/2005, 06:29 PM
BigReefing BigReefing is offline
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Try not to use epoxy if you can. I have used epoxy for many many different projects. It is very toxic stuff. I would only use it if i drained my tank and I had a whole in the tank it stuff. I am not going to tell you how toxic it is, only that it is one of the most toxic substances you can buy to work with that a home improvement place carryies. I have some better ideas fore you. Put that largest stones on the bottom. Go with what is called island formation. Start with sort of an oval shape in the middle of the tank and work your way up to a smaller peak. Keep the stone away from the walls so you can clean them when needed. Also a great thing to use is pvc pipe. You can buy different odds and ends and put it together to form structure that you can stack on. Make sure you drill a few small wholes for water to get through it. I only ever recomend epoxy if you live in a place where they have alot of earth quakes and then it is worth the risk. Try those ideas first. If worse comes to worse use epoxy. I am telling you what the books say. However, haveing worked with it and knowing how toxic it is. I would never ever use it my self, but that is my opinion.
  #5  
Old 08/04/2005, 06:43 PM
orangele orangele is offline
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I use Holdfast Epoxy made by Marineland. I have used literally dozens (yes dozens) in my tank over the past 5 years. On occassion I have used 4 tubes at once in my 150 gallon reef tank with no obvious problems. The reason that I use so much epoxy is that I have a tall symmetric hexagonal tank with a center overflow. I have LR stacked steeply up against the center overflow, and without use of epoxy, the whole thing would come tumbling down. All I can tell you about is my experience, and with the epoxy mentioned, I have noticed NO ill effects.
  #6  
Old 08/04/2005, 06:54 PM
BigReefing BigReefing is offline
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I dont think there is a problem with useing exposy in a empy tank and building in a empty tank and letting it cure all the way before putting in watter. You and I have worked with it before. The person is new to it and you and I both know how you have to use it spareingly and you will screw it up a little your first time. I was thinking sense it was her first time I would sugest other methods before she had to go that rout. If you do go that rout with the epoxy go slow. You dont need much at all. This is not like glue. It is not called a glue. It is a resin. Its not like superglue. Its alot stronger. I just want to warn you how nasty it is before you use it. Use it out side cause it is very hazardous to breath if you have children around or cant handle chemicals. However, it is the best thing to use if you live in earthquake land or like the other guy said have a really deep and narrow tank and it is the only way.
  #7  
Old 08/04/2005, 07:06 PM
Tunguska Tunguska is offline
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One easy way to get more stable structures is to set each LR piece down on a table. Look underneath and notice what parts of the rock actually TOUCH the table. These are your pressure points. These are the only points on the rock you actually need to support. Annother hint is to turn the rock and look at many different angles--try to find as few pressure points as possible. Once you identify the pressure points, start by placing less interesting small or middle size rocks on your glass so that you will be supporting the pressure points of your larger rocks. Once you have your large rocks supported, place your more interesting small rocks on top of the larger pieces. This process allows you to create open structures, which allow good flow and room for fish to swim, and still have a stable structure. All this without one drop of epoxy!

Since I almost feel like I am stealing credit for this, I will cite my source. This process was described to me as such by Tien at Aquarium Designs in Hoover, AL. Although I did basically the same thing when I started, his way of describing it makes it very clear.
  #8  
Old 08/04/2005, 08:40 PM
pvtschultz pvtschultz is offline
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An additional trick is to get plastic coathangers and a masonary bit that is slightly larger than them. Drill a ~2" hole in each piece, cut a lenth of coathanger to fit, use something to create a jagged surface on the coathanger, stick an epoxy ball in each hole (I use aquamend epoxy from Home Depot), press them together and you're set. It will take about an hour for the epoxy to set up good, but the coathangers will hold them in place until then.
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  #9  
Old 08/04/2005, 09:28 PM
Reefugee Reefugee is offline
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Hmm interesting. I know a lot of experience reefers who have used epoxy with no problem. Even the manufacturer clains that it's non-toxic to fish, plans, and small animal. Now I don't know if that menas when it dry or when it's wet. Beside the skimmer - I haven't noticed any ill effect in my tank.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewIt...product=TL1611
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewIt...product=AS4711

Minh

Quote:
Originally posted by BigReefing
Try not to use epoxy if you can. I have used epoxy for many many different projects. It is very toxic stuff. I would only use it if i drained my tank and I had a whole in the tank it stuff. I am not going to tell you how toxic it is, only that it is one of the most toxic substances you can buy to work with that a home improvement place carryies. I have some better ideas fore you.
  #10  
Old 08/05/2005, 11:27 AM
Chrisgriffith25 Chrisgriffith25 is offline
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Location: Costa Mesa, CA
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I agree. There are many different types of epoxy. Some reef safe some not. My guess is that most hardware stores don't carry the reef safe stuff. My guess is that is what bigreefing is talking about.
  #11  
Old 08/05/2005, 02:39 PM
kevin gu3 kevin gu3 is offline
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I agree that stick epoxy is safe, but save it for attaching frags.

For stabilizing rock use long zip ties and a cordless drill with a masonry bit. Any visible ties are quickly covered with coralline.
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  #12  
Old 08/05/2005, 03:06 PM
tang named junkyard tang named junkyard is offline
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I posted some pics of my tank a couple of days ago. You can look. Its alot easier to stack the rocks with no water in the tank because you can actually feel the balance of the rocks better than when there is water in the tank.
  #13  
Old 08/06/2005, 03:21 PM
reefarchitect reefarchitect is offline
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I would try taking a few rock slate peices and making that your support for the larger rocks> this makes the rocks secure> Yes, there are a few safe epoxy glues.. but I would save them for coral frags and not your main rocks> If you use epoxy to keep your rocks together what happends when you want to rearrange your rock set up?
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