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  #751  
Old 01/17/2007, 10:29 PM
reefman225gal reefman225gal is offline
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damsels are kept in the tanks to control pests like flatworms, bristleworms and others that can reach plauge proportions if not kept in chek. the damsel's are not feed dierectly
  #752  
Old 01/18/2007, 12:46 AM
Robert Patterso Robert Patterso is offline
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I TRIED to pass this on in another forum. The recipe of the pappone was given. Stated to use "FRESH" not frozen and bam a heated discussion broke out. So I'm asking here. Assuming there are no preservatives ect. in the shellfish why not frozen. Does it have to do with protiens, what? Is there a scientific reason for this and if so what is it exactly.

If you answer in scientific jargen please put into lamens terms also please so us non scientific folk can understand also.

Thanks

Also, not trying to start a heated discussion here to. Just want to get the facts straight.........
  #753  
Old 01/18/2007, 01:03 AM
Sir Sir is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Patterso
I TRIED to pass this on in another forum. The recipe of the pappone was given. Stated to use "FRESH" not frozen and bam a heated discussion broke out. So I'm asking here. Assuming there are no preservatives ect. in the shellfish why not frozen. Does it have to do with protiens, what? Is there a scientific reason for this and if so what is it exactly.

If you answer in scientific jargen please put into lamens terms also please so us non scientific folk can understand also.

Thanks

Also, not trying to start a heated discussion here to. Just want to get the facts straight.........
Nel 99,99% dei casi nei prodotti congelati vengono inseriti diversi tipi di conservanti..alcuni anche a base di sali di ammoniaca, se non ricordo male....anche nei prodotti che trovate nelle pescherie e che provengono da zone lontane dove voi abitate, contengono conservanti...se io abito a roma(per esempio) e compro del pesce che proviene da 800 km da casa mia, probabilmente contiene conservanti....anche se poi magari lo trovate sul bancone del pesce fresco....quindi oltre a prendere pesce che non sia congelato,(che quindi trovate nel banco frigo del supermarchet) io prendo di solito quello che proviene da luoghi non troppo distanti da dove abito....
per questo è buona regola evitare di usare ingredienti congelati....
tutto qui. per il semplice fatto che i commercianti sono costretti a conservare il pesce appena pescato prima che questo sia venduto....
comunque se avete l'assicurazione di non trovare conservanti nel pesce che comprate(anche che sia congelato) c'è comunque un altro problema....

se io prendo 10 cozze( o altro pesce...) congelate, le scongelo preparo il pappone e poi congelo di nuovo tutto per fare i cubetti....questo non và bene....si perderebbero molte delle sostanze nutritive.....

alla fine conviene cercare prodotti freschi

ps. che cosa significa "PE"??????? non capisco....

ciao Fabio.
  #754  
Old 01/18/2007, 01:14 AM
Siapin Siapin is offline
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ingles por favore
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  #755  
Old 01/18/2007, 01:24 AM
Sir Sir is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Siapin
ingles por favore
scusami ma non parlo inglese ...Robert o Darkxerox tradurranno quello che io ho scritto ...

ciao
  #756  
Old 01/18/2007, 10:18 AM
REEF-DADDY REEF-DADDY is offline
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I can't wait to hear the translation on this one myself.
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  #757  
Old 01/18/2007, 11:36 AM
sprite sprite is offline
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Sir>>>Excuse me but I do not speak English ...Robert or Darkxerox will translate what I wrote...

hello
  #758  
Old 01/18/2007, 12:07 PM
REEF-DADDY REEF-DADDY is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by sprite
Sir>>>Excuse me but I do not speak English ...Robert or Darkxerox will translate what I wrote...

hello
I meant his answer to the frozen v. fresh debate.......
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  #759  
Old 01/18/2007, 03:45 PM
Roadtoad Roadtoad is offline
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I guess it is my turn to translate:

Fabio said: (sorry if I paraphrase a little)
In 99.99% of the cases frozen products include various preservatives some of which contain of ammonia, if my memory doesnt fail me… Preseervatives may also be found in fish products that are transported long distances to where you live. If I go to Rome (as an example) and buy fish that comes from 800 km away from my house, it will probably contain some type of preservative, even if it came from the fresh fish counter. Therefore beyond looking for fish that is not frozen, I look into the place where it comes from and try to get it from local sources. It is a good rule to avoid frozen ingredients just for the simple fact that the traders are forced to preserve the fish after it has been caught until it is sold…. Even if you find fish (even if it has been frozen) that is guaranteed not to contain preservatives there is another problem…. If I take 10 frozen mussels (or other seafood), once I defrost it, prepare the pappone and then re-freeze it into cubes many of the nutrients would get lost. In the end it is best to get the freshest ingredients.

Fabio


BTW, Fabio, PE is referring to polyp extension
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  #760  
Old 01/18/2007, 04:42 PM
ROR ROR is offline
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Now that makes perfect sense. Nobody SHOULD be able to argue with that. My Momma always told me not to re-freeze sea food. Here on the West coast I can buy my shellfish live.
  #761  
Old 01/18/2007, 07:59 PM
Robert Patterso Robert Patterso is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roadtoad
I guess it is my turn to translate:

Fabio said: (sorry if I paraphrase a little)
In 99.99% of the cases frozen products include various preservatives some of which contain of ammonia, if my memory doesnt fail me… Preseervatives may also be found in fish products that are transported long distances to where you live. If I go to Rome (as an example) and buy fish that comes from 800 km away from my house, it will probably contain some type of preservative, even if it came from the fresh fish counter. Therefore beyond looking for fish that is not frozen, I look into the place where it comes from and try to get it from local sources. It is a good rule to avoid frozen ingredients just for the simple fact that the traders are forced to preserve the fish after it has been caught until it is sold…. Even if you find fish (even if it has been frozen) that is guaranteed not to contain preservatives there is another problem…. If I take 10 frozen mussels (or other seafood), once I defrost it, prepare the pappone and then re-freeze it into cubes many of the nutrients would get lost. In the end it is best to get the freshest ingredients.

Fabio


BTW, Fabio, PE is referring to polyp extension
Thanks Fabio for your reply. It does make perfect sense.

The person on the other forum was a molecular biologist I guess and claimed that if you were trying to perserve the cell wall that would be one thing otherwise frozen was far superior. I replied that the freezing would start to break down the "protiens", I'm sure I miss spoke there but it doesn't make sence to freeze, thaw and then refreeze to me. It does make sence that the freezing would cause the nutrient levels to drop. Plus if you can get fresh or live it can't get any better than that.

Thanks to roadtoad also for the translation...
  #762  
Old 01/18/2007, 08:01 PM
trueblackpercula trueblackpercula is offline
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Thanks..................
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  #763  
Old 01/18/2007, 11:00 PM
pito pito is offline
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I remember when I kept an iguana I use to make DIY food. I allways had to add vitaman b because it was known to get lost in freezing. I kind of figured that you need to add vitamines to any frozen fish food.
  #764  
Old 01/19/2007, 12:01 AM
ROR ROR is offline
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The last post of the "recipe" didn't include vitamins in the mix. I thought I read somewhere in this thread that they were adding a children's multi vitamin.
  #765  
Old 01/19/2007, 12:52 AM
Serioussnaps Serioussnaps is offline
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So they use AA;s from a pharmacy, now that makes more sense. The GNC stuff cant be good for adding to the tank. Now i want to know what EXACT AA;s the Italians are adding...maybe it was mentioned in their posts, but the online translators give me english that is even harder to understand. At least with the italian i can take parts of words and guess, but the English it puts out is like words coming from a crackhead that just got done smoking angel dust.

BTW, true black, when i started I had a millie that always showed stupid PE during the day and when i started feeding it showed NO PE..i was worried because this millie is known for its PE...tested everything and could find nothing at all. I was worried as heck, I run a GFO reactor which had new media put in prior to starting the pappone to ease my fears. I decided to just let it be and let it take its course rather than messing with the tank and bam, 4 days later PE is back....dont know what it was!
  #766  
Old 01/19/2007, 01:08 AM
Herpervet Herpervet is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by pito
I remember when I kept an iguana I use to make DIY food. I allways had to add vitaman b because it was known to get lost in freezing. I kind of figured that you need to add vitamines to any frozen fish food.
Frozen fish needs to be supplemented with thiamine due to thiaminase in the tissue. That's probably the vitamin your thinking of.
  #767  
Old 01/19/2007, 09:00 AM
WILDTHING WILDTHING is offline
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Serioussnaps
[B]the online translators give me english that is even harder to understand.



Couldn't agree more.

trueblackpecula and Roadtoad thanks for the translations.
  #768  
Old 01/19/2007, 09:14 AM
pito pito is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herpervet
Frozen fish needs to be supplemented with thiamine due to thiaminase in the tissue. That's probably the vitamin your thinking of.
I'm not sure, but it's obviouse that there's a loss of certain essential itams when freezing food. I'm wondering if there have been studies that show whats lost and what needs to be replaced in the foods we use?
  #769  
Old 01/19/2007, 09:18 AM
Sir Sir is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serioussnaps
So they use AA;s from a pharmacy, now that makes more sense. The GNC stuff cant be good for adding to the tank. Now i want to know what EXACT AA;s the Italians are adding...maybe it was mentioned in their posts, but the online translators give me english that is even harder to understand. At least with the italian i can take parts of words and guess, but the English it puts out is like words coming from a crackhead that just got done smoking angel dust.

BTW, true black, when i started I had a millie that always showed stupid PE during the day and when i started feeding it showed NO PE..i was worried because this millie is known for its PE...tested everything and could find nothing at all. I was worried as heck, I run a GFO reactor which had new media put in prior to starting the pappone to ease my fears. I decided to just let it be and let it take its course rather than messing with the tank and bam, 4 days later PE is back....dont know what it was!
OK...ora capisco "PE"...grazie Road

io non ho nessuno che mi traduce in italiano però....stò diventando pazzo con i traduttori on line...
l'estenzione dei polipi(PE) aumenta di molto con l'aggiunta del pappone....
ho notato però anche io una riduzione della estroflessione dopo aver aggiunto gli amminoacidi, ma erano di tipo diverso rispetto a quelli che vi ho scritto sopra...quelli che in molti acquariofili italiani usano solo "Amminocomplex; Long life....

quindi dopo 2-3 somministrazioni vedevo che le mie montipore digitate rimanevano chiuse per qualche ora....subito dopo aver messo gli amminoacidi....quindi ho interrotto.
adesso stò utilizzando solo pappone. senza amminoacidi. e tutto fila liscio...

molti usano reefstar :
http://www.thereefer.it/shop/product...roducts_id=645

questo è un negozio online italiano....comunque qualsiasi tipo di amminoacidi vanno bene....
non è un problema questo! solo che se notate cianobatteri o fenomeni strani, interrompete....in fondo sono utili, ma non indispensabili!


ciao Fabio
  #770  
Old 01/19/2007, 07:45 PM
Robert Patterso Robert Patterso is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
OK...ora capisco "PE"...grazie Road

io non ho nessuno che mi traduce in italiano però....stò diventando pazzo con i traduttori on line...
l'estenzione dei polipi(PE) aumenta di molto con l'aggiunta del pappone....
ho notato però anche io una riduzione della estroflessione dopo aver aggiunto gli amminoacidi, ma erano di tipo diverso rispetto a quelli che vi ho scritto sopra...quelli che in molti acquariofili italiani usano solo "Amminocomplex; Long life....

quindi dopo 2-3 somministrazioni vedevo che le mie montipore digitate rimanevano chiuse per qualche ora....subito dopo aver messo gli amminoacidi....quindi ho interrotto.
adesso stò utilizzando solo pappone. senza amminoacidi. e tutto fila liscio...

molti usano reefstar :
http://www.thereefer.it/shop/product...roducts_id=645

questo è un negozio online italiano....comunque qualsiasi tipo di amminoacidi vanno bene....
non è un problema questo! solo che se notate cianobatteri o fenomeni strani, interrompete....in fondo sono utili, ma non indispensabili!


ciao Fabio
OK. ..ora I understand "PE" ...grazie Road

I have not no that it translates myself in Italian however. ...stò becoming crazy with the translators on line... The estenzione of the polyps (PE) increases of a lot with the addition of the pappone. ... I noted however also I a reduction of the estroflessione after to have added the amminoacidi, but were of different type with respect to those that I wrote yourselves above. ..quelli that in Italian a lot of acquariofili use alone "Amminocomplex; Long life. ...

Therefore after 2-3 administrations I saw that my montipore pressed rhymed closed for some now. ...subito after to have put the amminoacidi. ...quindi I interrupted. Now it was using alone pappone. without amminoacidi. and all smooth line...

A lot they use reefstar: http://www.thereefer.it/shop/produc...products_id=645

This is an online shop Italian. ...comunque any type of amminoacidi go well. ... It is not a problem this! but if noted cianobatteri or weird phenomena, interrupt. ...in deep are useful, but not indispensable!

hello Fabio
  #771  
Old 01/20/2007, 01:41 AM
serankko serankko is offline
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Check this out... I think this is the Long-Life Amino Complex the Italians use...

http://www.pho.it/schedaProdotto.asp?prodottoID=139

We just need to find the US equivalent...

Last edited by serankko; 01/20/2007 at 02:07 AM.
  #772  
Old 01/20/2007, 04:00 AM
Sir Sir is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by serankko
Check this out... I think this is the Long-Life Amino Complex the Italians use...

http://www.pho.it/schedaProdotto.asp?prodottoID=139

We just need to find the US equivalent...
yes
  #773  
Old 01/20/2007, 09:02 AM
trueblackpercula trueblackpercula is offline
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what's the difference from that and the ones designed for Reeftanks suck as Zeovit brand AA?
Michael
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  #774  
Old 01/20/2007, 09:06 AM
trueblackpercula trueblackpercula is offline
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can this one be used?
http://www.activelife.us/preventive_nutrition_Amino.php
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  #775  
Old 01/20/2007, 11:59 AM
jnarowe jnarowe is offline
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That description does not say what the inactive ingredients are.
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