Water Parameter help

[barclayrl]

I posted this question in the reef forum but thought this may be a better fit. I am having problems with abiotic precipitation on my pumps and heaters. I have sufficient MG in my tank and just found out my salifert test for ALK/DHK is a “Bad Batch” so I do not have a correct reading as of yet.

I Run a CA reactor and dose MG once a month (or When needed) and nothing else. What should I focus on to correct this problem? I have problems growing coralline so far as well. Just wish I could get this all figured out, I broke a $50 Tunze impeller last week after if froze up on me. I would like to get my PH a little higher as well. My button polyps stay closed until my PH hits 8.26 or higher on my meter.

Any ideas??
10/13/07 – All Salifert Tests
SG = 1.025 - Refractometer
PH = 8.19 @ 2:30PM (PH Monitor)
ALK = 5.71 (SUPER HIGH – Bad Test)
DHK = 16 (Again Super High – Bad Test)
MG = 1440 (This should be ok right?)
CA = 450
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 0
PO4 = 0

[plankton]

Do you have any pics of what is precipitating on your impellers?

Are you running kalkwasser by chance?

Is it possible to borrow an alk test kit from a buddy or buy a new one to get a correct Alk value?

Scott

[bertoni]

All those numbers seem okay, except for the alkalinity, of course.

I'd try cleaning some of the precipitate with some vinegar. If it's calcium carbonate, which is very likely, the precipitate will fizz. The vinegar will also help with the removal.

Is the reactor a CO₂ type, or is that a limewater reactor? That model is listed as a CO₂ type, but I wanted to double-check.

When was the pH monitor last cleaned and calibrated? I'm surprised the polyps are that picky.

Heat and high pH both contribute to calcium carbonate precipitation.

[barclayrl]

Originally posted by plankton
Do you have any pics of what is precipitating on your impellers?

Are you running kalkwasser by chance?

Is it possible to borrow an alk test kit from a buddy or buy a new one to get a correct Alk value?

Scott

I ordered 2 new ALK tests to get better readings. I ran KALK for the first year, but have not run it since the CA reactor was put in place. The pricipitation is almost a pure white stone, (sorry no pics) and is cleaned off with white viniger.

[barclayrl]

Originally posted by bertoni
All those numbers seem okay, except for the alkalinity, of course.

I'd try cleaning some of the precipitate with some vinegar. If it's calcium carbonate, which is very likely, the precipitate will fizz. The vinegar will also help with the removal.

Is the reactor a CO₂ type, or is that a limewater reactor? That model is listed as a CO₂ type, but I wanted to double-check.

When was the pH monitor last cleaned and calibrated? I'm surprised the polyps are that picky.

Heat and high pH both contribute to calcium carbonate precipitation.

The precipitate does fizz, and the CA reactor is CO2 I have not calibrated PH for over a year. I will re-calibrate it tonight.

I will also recalibrate my thermometer (RK2) as well tonight and see what comes along? Any

[bertoni]

Is the calcium reactor attached to the sump? If so, how much water volume is in that section? Same for the lime reactor. Are the heaters in the same section of the sump?

[barclayrl]

Originally posted by bertoni
Is the calcium reactor attached to the sump? If so, how much water volume is in that section? Same for the lime reactor. Are the heaters in the same section of the sump?

The CA reactor is in the sump and it is a 100G Rubbermaid tub.

So no problems there..

I do not run Kalk anymore.

[barclayrl]

I just recalibrated my PH and it is now showing 7.99 I think that may be part of my problem... At night it may fall lower.. The Meter was .22 off.. before my recalabration today it read 8.21.

I did a 20 Gallon water change last night and it raied my PH up to 8.25 So this means my PH has been in the 7.75-7.85 Range for a while. Does this explain the precipitation?

I think i need to get this raised up with some KALK..

[bertoni]

Actually, lower pH reduces precipitation. I'd probably work on raising it, anyway.

I'm somewhat worried that the sump is reaching higher alkalinity than the rest of the system. How much flow through the sump is there? Is there any circulation just for the sump? Also, if the sump has algae growing in it, they can deplete the carbon dioxide level and raise the pH substantially. Some tests there might be interesting.

[barclayrl]

Originally posted by bertoni
Actually, lower pH reduces precipitation. I'd probably work on raising it, anyway.

I'm somewhat worried that the sump is reaching higher alkalinity than the rest of the system. How much flow through the sump is there? Is there any circulation just for the sump? Also, if the sump has algae growing in it, they can deplete the carbon dioxide level and raise the pH substantially. Some tests there might be interesting.

I have a Seio 1100 In my sump (1100 GPH) circulating the sump in a circle so there is good circulation. I gather all my test from the sump as well.

Do you think my Calcium reactor is setup wrong?

Also should i replace my ph probe? it is about 2 years old.

Thanks for the responses

[barclayrl]

Also i have a 150HQI Metal Halide Burning on top of half the sump. it has algea growing on that side as well.

[bertoni]

Okay, this might take some thought. I'll try tomorrow.

[barclayrl]

Originally posted by bertoni
Okay, this might take some thought. I'll try tomorrow.

Thanks for keeping me in mind, i just cant figure this out...

[bertoni]

The only possibility that comes to mind is that the algae drive the pH high enough to cause problems. The only way to test that would be to measure the pH towards the end of the lighting cycle. When were the previous tests done?

How quickly does the precipitation build up? Some build-up is normal.

[barclayrl]

Originally posted by bertoni
The only possibility that comes to mind is that the algae drive the pH high enough to cause problems. The only way to test that would be to measure the pH towards the end of the lighting cycle. When were the previous tests done?

How quickly does the precipitation build up? Some build-up is normal.

The last test was done about a half hour before the lights went off. I have been watching the ph over the last few days, and you are right, the PH is about 7.97 at the end of the light cycle. When i got home from work at 5 it was about 7.81

I am going to start dosing KALK to raise this up a notch.

Any objections to that?

It takes about 4-6 weeks to freeze up my tunze. One other thing i thought of is my sump is in my furnace room. The air in there is fairly stagnant, would that cause low oxygen, or something else?

Should i buy an actual PH test? If so what brand?
Thanks again!

Ryan

[bertoni]

I use a pH meter, which I think is more flexible than the test kits.

I don't know why the precipitation is that bad. That's too fast, in my opinion.

[barclayrl]

Originally posted by bertoni
I use a pH meter, which I think is more flexible than the test kits.

I don't know why the precipitation is that bad. That's too fast, in my opinion.

I use a pinpoint PH probe on my RK2, what is the life span of the probes?

I agree on the speed, i am tired of it.. Should i setup some fresh air from outside to try?

[bertoni]

I don't know how long those probes would last. The probes on my Oakton meter last a year or two, depending on how well I take core of them.

I'd let calcium drift down to 400 ppm or so. That might help a bit. Fresh air might, too.

[Zedar]

I had the same problem.

I would get a month out of a tunze And i would have to clean it.

I monitored the calc and alk usage and i was using a lot of 2 part. Like 300 ml per day. If i lowered the dosage the values would fall below acceptable levels. I knew most of this was just abiotic precipitation but I had no choice, my corals life depended on keeping the values inline.

I run calc@420 DKH@8 mag@1300. I too have low PH. 7.9 day 7.8 at night.

I also ran Kalk for about a year before switching to 2 part. So there seems to be a lot of parallels between our systems.

Now heres the strangest part of the story. In the last few weeks Ive been lowering my 2 part dosage A LOT!!!! The values started to climb Calc 500 alk 12dkh

I turned off my dosers yesterday, to allow the values to fall. I'm down to 60ml per day from 300ml.

So why after all this time of dosing large amounts of two part into my system, does it suddenly require less? Oh and I'm not seeing any precipitation on the tunzes. In the last month.

These are the things I can recall doing to the system recently.

I cleaned the hoses both supply and return. They were loaded with calcium deposits!!!. The system is three years old. I started to notice the flow dropping in the sump. The hoses were 90% blocked!!!!

Can this somehow had something to do with where all the 2 part was going?

I also changed the location for dosing calcium. It use to be in the last chamber of the sump at the return pump.
I moved it to the same location as the alk.Which is in the high flow area of the sump.

[bertoni]

This type of precipitation problems seems to happen in some systems. I don't know why. Cutting back on the dosing might help, and dosing the low-pH version of the 2-part could help, as well, even with low pH being measured. There could be a lot of pH swing or an issue with pH measurement, as one wild guess as to possible issues.