'Deep Water' Aquarium

[Vicious]

Has anyone tried to simulate a deepwater reef? I'm thinking low light, cooler temps, and livestock that's appropriate for deep water. I'd like to simulate an environment around 60' - 100' deep.

I have thought about invertabrates, but not done any research yet. Although I know some corals will grow fine in diminished light.


Any ideas, wisdom, words of caution?


Thanks,

Vicious

[sylaak]

It would be interesting for sure. Lots of research would have to go into it and it might be a harder to find livestock since it isn't near as popular as shallow reefs.

[Frick-n-Frags]

I would guess:

1) those animals are hard to come by in the trade
2) they live in ultra-stable environments that would be hard to duplicate
3) little light = higher dependance on feeding = rough way to go

Think about it, we have enough work keeping things alive that can bake for several hours in the low tide sun and periodically be inundated with debris and tolerate all kinds of temp and flow extremes etc


That being said, I'm working on some hot water hydrogen sulfide jets in my 20,000 psi test chamber so I can raise some giant featherworms

[highlands]

Originally posted by Vicious [B]Has anyone tried to simulate a deepwater reef? I'm thinking low light, cooler temps, and livestock that's appropriate for deep water.

I'm thinking along these lines too. I'm planning on building a large aquarium of cement with viewing windows in our new house. My thought is to have a ledge varying between 3' and 4' down around the tank and then a deeper central well that actually goes under the ledge. The central part it will be much darker than the top area, especially under the ledge which will only get diffused and reflected light. This creates a top reef and a deep reef so there is more variety and a deep water column. Total depth of the central well still to be determined.

Part of what appeals to me about this is that it will create multiple environments within the reef.

Primary lighting is going to be via a skylight with artificial light to augment it during the winters (dark here abouts in northern Vermont). Overheating is not a problem around here. I have kept tanks lit by sunlight for over a decade.

[dirtyreefer]

That would be pretty dope, however obtaining livestock such as deepwater fish are either really expensive or hard to come by.

The reason being that the decompression required to bring the animal back up to the surface for collection can be a little sketchy if you are not dealing with divers with that sort of experience. I've seen deep water pygmy angels go for $300-$400 easily because of this and because they are rare.

[Vicious]

Ok, perhaps I used the wrong wording. By deep water I meant 60 - 100 feet, not bottom of the Marianas trench deep. Squirrel fish, hawk fish, some wrasse and maybe some corals, or macro-algae are what I have in mind.

My first dive was a 60' wall dive in St Vincent, I'm trying to recreate that experience. (I actually took photos of sea horses that deep).

Sorry trying to keep this on topic, and not to the realm of fantasy.

[thrlride]

Cooler temps are harder to achieve than warmer but you're not talking that cold at 60'.

Sounds like a cool project though.

[Vicious]

I'm thinking lower lighting levels will help keep the temps cooler as well. Time to seriously start researching this.....

[thereefmaster]

That would be sweet if you could pull it off.

[djmuzzi]

I wouldn't think decompression would be to much of an issue for many of the animals since at night the largest migration of animals on earth occurs in the ocean from deep water to surface then back by morning.

[arion]

that will an awsome tank. it'll be really expensive though

[highlands]

Originally posted by arion
that will an awsome tank. it'll be really expensive though

Interesting comment. I see people say that a lot when they read about 'big' tanks - they think 'really expensive'. It doesn't need to be so. Sure, if you hire everything out it is going to be a fair chunk of change if you want to go that way.

Even then if done professionally it isn't proportionally more expensive than a smaller tank as the volume goes up. It is less expensive per gallon to enclose, pump, light and otherwise built and run a large tank than it is to run a small tank. Furthermore, large tanks are generally more stable and stocked less densely than small tanks.

More over, many people who do 'big' tanks, do it because they want to 'do' it. They don't hire out any more than necessary but instead do as much of it themselves as possible. DIY tanks can be a lot bigger without being a lot more expensive. Part of the joy of 'doing' it is the design, construction, stocking and maintaining of the tanks. Yes, some people will hire it all out so they can have a conversation piece but that is more the exception - especially among people who would frequent these discussions.

Before you gripe that DIY won't be as good as 'professional' realize that many DIYers are engineers and builders who love what they do. Or they may be 'non-professionals' who are highly skilled. Sure there is the rare exception of the person who dives in over their head and is eaten by a 'big' tank but most know what they're doing. This can result in better thought out, constructed and maintained tanks than what buyers get from the pros.

'Big' does not have to equal 'really expensive'.

[spidey07]

Well from a diver's perspective....

The life at 80-130 feet is significantly different than the shallow reef (under 40 feet)

Lots of coral (mostly hard) that you just don't see growing in the shallow reef. Its like a completely different reef altogether. Heck talking to my dive master they won't grow in the shallow reef.

I guess all I'm saying is they are very different ecosystems (thanks to the sun) and probably the pressure. 1 atmosphere is a whole lot different than 3-4.

Interesting topic though.

my .02 as a recreational diver.

speaking of "big" I've seen brain coral's the size of a hummer and larger. unbelievable.

[greenbean36191]

I wouldn't think decompression would be to much of an issue for many of the animals since at night the largest migration of animals on earth occurs in the ocean from deep water to surface then back by morning.

Even fish caught in less than 60 ft of water often have to be decompressed. It's pretty standard practice among collectors.

[skylsdale]

I (as well as a few other members) have done some fairly intense planning of this type of system over the last couple of years--have you done a search for related threads?

Also, in most tropical areas on a clear day (and good vis) you'd still be using halides over a tank to replicate the light at 60-100 ft. of water--it's really not as "deep" as we think it is.

And getting fish and organisms from even deeper isn't really that difficult--a vast majority of the ones we already keep in brightly lit tanks are spread all over the reef and all sorts of depths (for example, Pseudanthias squamipinnis or Lyretail anthias, is found anywhere from 6.5 ft. down to 130 ft.) Same with cardinalfish. Same with basslets. Same with gobies and dartfish and chromis and damsels...and the list could go on. MANY corals (especially softies) are found at deeper depths: colts, nepthea, bubbles, M. capricornis etc.

So, you can actually pull of a deeper section of the reef slope while not breaking the bank (or even worrying about dropping temperatures--unless you're going for something like 300+ ft. of depth) or trying to get all sorts of crazy fish and corals.

[Vicious]

I'm still in initiall stages of planning. Typically I'll plan this for a year or more then start putting everything in action. At this point I'm looking at a tank around 240 gallons. I think that will allow me plenty of flexibility for livestock. Currently I'm looking at lighting and thinking only actinics since at my target depth the light is on the blue end of thee spectrum.

[sharkboy]

we have the same avatar!

[sharkboy]

kind-of

[dickeybrazil]

nice idea

[toonces]

i think it's an interesting idea, given the limits some people have already pointed out.

some concerns i would have are:
1)slower growth rates. if you have photosynthetic corals and use lower light levels, your corals are going to grow slower.

2) nutrients for your corals. your corals might rely on feeding moreso than shallower corals. if you have to feed them, you're opening up a whole other can of worms.

3) stability. like someone mentioned, things tend to probably be a little more stable down deeper, so you'll have to be more careful about fluctuations.

i'd think you can use many of the same fish and corals, like someone said 60-100 isn't all that deep. if the idea is to save money by going cheaper on lights and all, this might not be worth it for the limitions necessarily imposed.

[PoukieBear]

If you are keeping fish that come from deep water, wouldn't there be some long term ill effects on them? I know they would be decompressed, but over the long terem, that can't be healthy for them, right?

[highlands]

Originally posted by PoukieBear
If you are keeping fish that come from deep water, wouldn't there be some long term ill effects on them? I know they would be decompressed, but over the long terem, that can't be healthy for them, right?

There seems to be some confusion about the term "deep water" that is being used. The deep water tanks that people are talking about making are just a little ways down. A diveable depth. Even a free diving depth. The fish and many of the other organisms that inhabit the upper parts of the reefs also inhabit these shallow "deep waters". We aren't talking about 1,000' or 5,000' down. People are talking 60' to 100' deep which is not deep as in ocean trench deep. Decompression is not a significant problem at these shallow deep areas. The biggest issue might be overexposure to ultraviolet light, if you could produce enough in your tank.

[Frick-n-Frags]

FWIW, by the time light has made it 60-100' down only two frequencies are left: actinic blue and near UV

[MCary]

Alot of deeper water fish are very plain and get very big.

Deeper water corals, mostly gorgonians, need to be fed.

Cooler water need expensive chillers with higher horsepowers since your taking the temp lower that a few degrees.

It might be fun for an intellctual exercise but not very ornamental I wouldn't think.

[elaw62]

i think the flower garden marine sanctuary in the gulf of mexico ranges around that depth you're talking about. i think this would make a very interesting aquarium. good luck.