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#327
08/19/2005, 02:11 PM
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Well all I know is that some guy in Australia kept one alive for 9 years by feeding him cat food!! Among other things... So I think it is possible to keep them alive if we give them the right things to eat. We just have to find out what.
I got a pretty big piece of live rock the other day from work. It has a TON of sponges on it. And my Idol has been feasting on it since I put it in. Hopefully this will help him. Hes still doing well by the way. Fat and happy. |
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#328
08/19/2005, 02:43 PM
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Havaneros,
I'm sorry to dispell your statement about sponges. They do not die from being out of water. They only die when they get air trapped inside of their pores. I expose the sponges in my tank every time I do a water change. They have yet to die in 6 years of growing in that tank. They also get exposed to the air in the ocean during low tide and survive.  Also there are more than a few people who have kept MI's alive more than a year in their tank. It's just that people like you tend to bash them about keeping them and so they don't talk about it much. This thread as been very informative and I think is a step in the right direction. Please don't ruin it with negative comments. Those who have gathered here in this thread are hear to learn and share their experiences so that maybe one day, keeping a MI will be the same as keeping a clown fish, which was once hard to do.
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Click the red house for my tank build thread. Have you THANKED a Veteran lately for the freedoms you take for granted each day? |
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#329
08/19/2005, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
LOL, yes Idols do need sponges in their diet... thats what this ENTIRE thread is on nearly!... their DIET.... Quote:
Idols die because of unknown reasons.... while most speculate that this is a Diet concerned Issue, and that they are not getting some CRUCIAL element in their captive diet... some say its stress, some say that they JUST CANT BE KEPT PERIOD, and some say that you can keep them alive for 9 years if you feed them cat food ( haha, just couldnt resist!  ) the point we are all ( all = people that are trying to keep this speices in captivity sucessfully) trying to make is that there is a WAY, we just havent found it yet... The same is true witht he Goniopora/Alveopora mystery.... As I believe Jin and Kerry have concluded.... they QUITE OBVEOUSLY NEED TO BE FED, just like Sun corals, except gonis use light while sun corals dont... I have Gonis and Alveos in my tank.. I FEED THEM, AND THEY GROW LIKE SOME KINDA CRAZY CUDZOO!!!! (sp?) Mysterys of the Ocean are being unraveled every day... and some mysterys are unraveled by scientist, some by the home aquarists.... needless to say, Mysterys dont always stay mysterys, Truth comes out sooner or later! I have NOT kept sponges in my tanks for years, just for the fact that I dont want to deal with pulling them out, if they DO INDEED do die.... I have not gotten a "SPONGE EATTING FISH"... lol, only now do I have no CHOICE but to GIVE THEM TO IT!... haha, but thats ok! I dont mind ... so far I have got some purple sponge, which he ignors, some Yellow Ball sponge, which he ignors, and some Blue sponge... WHICH HE EATS EATS EATS!!!.. now Im going to try some Blue Haliclona.. (sp?), sponge.... simular to the Blue sponge thats found on the LR that I got... but isnt as "splotchy, or stringy".... Ill update you all as soon as I get it, and see that he is eatting it.. HOPEFULLY! Well... GOT TO GO FEED MY MI!... haha
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SOFT CORALS ARE EVIL! LPS AND SPS RULE THE WORLD!!! Wah-ha-ha-ha-ha-haa! |
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#330
08/19/2005, 04:14 PM
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Blownchevy, I don't think he was bashing you people for keeping moorish idol. Rather he is one of the many people who are informed that Moorish Idols are better left to the most experienced aquarist with a tank designed specifically to keep a moorish idol. Or be kept in the ocean. I do not mean to start bashing this thread either, but not many people have kept one for more then a year and the people in this thread have only had theirs a few months. I do hope that these people benf, zfunk, shawn, and whoever else has an idol can keep theirs longer, but the reality of it, is that most don't. So is it really worth trying all kinds of food and trying to find the mystery link and then have the MI end up dying anyways. (I don't mean to say yours will, or be bashing you individually, just a statement I hear many say) I think a better alternative would be to let marine biologists etc.. to continue researching them in their natural habitat (the ocean) and then once we find the missing link, we keep them!
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Matt |
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#331
08/19/2005, 04:22 PM
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If you go back to one of the first pages of this thread, I posted some links on which several peopel have answerd up and stated that they have kept their MI for over 2 years. I currently do not have one and even bit my tounge the other day while in a LFS and saw a nice one in their tank as my new tank is not ready for one yet.
As was also stated earlier, the majority of information that is found in this hobby is by hobbiest, not the scientist. That is unless they get a huge grant to pay for their research and who is going to pay to find out why a MI is hard to keep. I know of one website where a wholesaler has been keeping them for over ten years and documenting his research. That is the only one I know of besides this thread. Also in one of the threads I posted, I finally got a wholesaler to admit that he has a higher mortality rate on blue tangs than MI's in his holding facilities but yet he continued to say, as others, oh well they will die eventually. So that is his reasoning for bashing those who wish to learn/aclerate this hobby in an effort to keep MI's. Also I do beleive that Paul has kept them for several years himself, but like me, dosen't consider it long tearm until they reach the age of around 5 or so in capativity.
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Click the red house for my tank build thread. Have you THANKED a Veteran lately for the freedoms you take for granted each day? |
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#332
08/19/2005, 04:26 PM
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Okay, thanks for not responding angriliy (spelling..) lol
On another forum (the saltwaterfish.com one) shawnts posted this same thing basically and was bashed by about 100 people because he wanted to keep his in such a small tank and it was unheard of!! I'm glad hes being nicer on this forum though haha, he got banned from the last one :P as did I... for some reason!!
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Matt |
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#333
08/19/2005, 04:29 PM
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I try not to get angry. I'd rather have a meaningful discussion. You never know when you might learn something.
Even at my age. 
__________________
Click the red house for my tank build thread. Have you THANKED a Veteran lately for the freedoms you take for granted each day? |
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#334
08/19/2005, 07:25 PM
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I'm curious for everyone keeping a Moorish Idol.. I've heard that they really pick at your corals and eat poly corals exc... Has anyone found the idols to be a problem in their reef tank wheer they were not able to keep certain corals because of them and if so what corals can you NOT keep?? LOOOVE the fish and was thinking about getting one but I want to make an informed decision before just going out and buying one... thanks in advance... Great Thread by the way
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#335
08/19/2005, 09:02 PM
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Flame Goby, if you go back a page you will see a list of corals that my Moorish Idol ate in my tank. As well as ones he didn't eat. In my experience they are most certainly NOT reef safe. There are things he won't touch, but there are more corals he will touch and destroy.
And I don't think havaneros intended to bash anyone. I think it was more of constructive criticism than anything. And it is appreciated. We all know the risks involved in keeping MI's. Thats the purpose of this thread. Nice to see you posting again blown63chevy. I've been following your tank setup. Its comming along nicely. And thanks for defending this thread. I and the rest of the thread posters appreciate it.
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#337
08/20/2005, 08:28 AM
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So far my Idol has never picked at a coral that I have seen. I don't have every type of coral either. Where they come from I only saw SPS hard corals so the stuff we have in our tanks is new to this fish.
Matt, I have my moorish Idol a little over a year which is no great accomplishment, I can keep amphipods longer than that. I am trying to research Idols as best I can, I even went on a dive trip to Tahiti and Bora Bora mainly to study these fish (although I told my wife it was just a normal vacation, she loved it too) I plan to go back to watch them further. These fish do have a quirk that keeps them from an extended lifespan in a tank and I hope to find it. My entire tank is an experiment and I have bred many animals in the last fifty years. I also believe that there is no one that is going to study these fish because there is very little profit in it and they come from the South Pacific which is not really a research facility. It may not be diet as I have only seen them in the sea in mated pairs, maybe they have to live like this. Mine is also really too large for my 100 gallon tank. I am giving away a foxface for free just to give the Idol more room. He also eats too much for my reef and is not helping the water conditions. I had to build an algae filter for the extra wastes put out by this fish. The rest of my fish are far too fat just from all the extra food for him. Also don't worry, I don't bash anyone. Have a great day. Paul |
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#339
08/20/2005, 04:39 PM
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Okay thanks for the info paul. Sounds like an awesome trip, I have also heard that breeded pair thing, that they may be "heart-broken" if not kept with their mate from the ocean to your tank. It was so sad when I was the LFS store and saw two moorish idols in different tanks (with a pane of glass between them) and they were just looking at eachother constatnly!! It would be so sad when someone bought 1 and not both.
And the main thing I think about doing "Moorish Idol Research" at home is that you have to have a tank built for them. With rock structures perfect for them to fit in, no fish that will bug them, a variety of foods, and plenty of room to swim. It is awesome that you understand your tank is too small and that you're freeing up room for your Moorish Idol. But someother people think "I'm going to get mine to survive forever in my 55 gallon tank" (that was the main argument on the other forum about shawnts idol, it being too big for his 75 gallon tank, don't mean to be bashing you again) If someone is going to try to do this research at home they have to be fully prepared and have a tank ideal for this fish, the numerous ignorant people who see one at the LFS and buy one without doing any research just make me mad!!! I'm glad you started this thread as it will elimiate many of these uninformed aquarists about the risks and mystery of the Moorish Idol
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Matt |
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#340
08/20/2005, 07:46 PM
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Zfunk, being summer I spend all of my free time out on my boat with friends. I just got home and started packing for tomorrow's boating partying. I did take some new pictures but for some reason it won't let me reduce the size and I can't post them to my gallery. I will keep trying but in the meantime I can tell you that your Idol looks better than mine. Mine is very healthy and fat but his dorsal keeps getting bit off as it grows, and they grow fast. I am giving away a large foxface hopefully on thursday because it is annoying the Idol and they get into it at feeding time. The foxface is real fat from all the food and it also loves the sponge which I like to reserve for the Idol. I am also worried that my tank is getting too hot. I am not home a lot and it has been almost 100 degrees here for a few weeks. It does not seem to affect the fish though.
I also can't feed the Idol the way I would like to in the summer because of the boat thing. It is so hot that I have not been able to collect the amphipods that I usually do. The water in the tide pools is in the eightees and the amphipods are scarce as are the sponges that I feed. I do however have plenty of seaweed to collect. Take care. Paul |
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#341
08/21/2005, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
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Yes what Crazy says is true... the people at swf.com.. are COMPLETLY REDICULOUS when it comes to talking about there personal experiences in reefing.... I was insulted, bashed, and basically called an idot for even attempting to keep a MI in a 75 gallon tank!.... which personally I do NOT think its a problem.. to my knowledge... MI stay in a certain area in the wild, circleing it and eatting at various "feeding stations" .. they are NOT hard swimmers and IMO do not need a MASSIVE system for the swimming room, but more for the food.... yes a 75 gallon tank is small for a food source, I AGREE, but not for swimming room!... plus if you constantly giveing the MI new sponge to eat then what does it matter that hes in a 75 gallon? gah! just my opinion though! Quote:
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Mine seems to loveeee brain corals, any kind!.. so needless to say.. my brains have been moved down the the fuge! No the Moorish idols are NOT reef safe themselves, but are better kept in reef tank environments Quote:
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sorry sorry, no no, now seriously!... that is quite a possibility! and an interesting one at that... I meen the mear FACT that these fish PAIR UP in the wild for LIFE is just amazing!!!!! Quote:
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SOFT CORALS ARE EVIL! LPS AND SPS RULE THE WORLD!!! Wah-ha-ha-ha-ha-haa! |
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#342
08/21/2005, 01:32 AM
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Haha thanks for being nice Shawn. I don't know about the swimming room, for now its good, but when its full grown, no way jose. But i respect your oppinion
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Matt |
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#343
08/21/2005, 05:11 AM
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im going to test the pairs thing. i figure if i can get 2 juvi's and put them in my 300 they should pair as they will be the only 2 there. and then move forward.
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{ Something witty and entertaining } |
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#344
08/21/2005, 05:59 AM
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keefsama, I don't know if just any two Idols will pair, they may want to make that decision on their own. I did not see any juviniles in the sea so I don't know at what age they pair. I also do not know if they pair for life, for that I would have to stay in Tahiti much longer. Not a bad idea.
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#345
08/21/2005, 06:54 AM
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i figure its worth the try. my 300 will be for the idols with wrasses and anthias being the other fish.
as it would be hard to get a pair i would guess. i did see somewhere this guy collects from hawaii and ships i can ask if he can snag me a pair and go that way but from pics the pairs are larger i dont really want to start off with such big idols i would like to have small ones and move up from there. Morning paul i need to get out there to check out the tank and idol also if you do get extra sponge and have enough to freeze for winter use would you sell some of it.? i dont have access to a boat 1 and 2 i dont do boats im not a water person unless im swimming and i dont like to swim in the ocean really so...
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{ Something witty and entertaining } |
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#346
08/21/2005, 12:14 PM
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keefsama2003, I can get you some sponge. And tropical sponge at that. My Idol loves the sponge I get him from around here. The colors vary from orange to blue. Just PM me and we can talk about the details.
Also, about putting 2 juvenile Idols in your tank. I don't think it will work. If they were bigger, maybe, but most juvenile fish tend to fight. Like if you put 2 juvenile queen angels in your tank in the hopes of them pairing up, they would most likely just kill each other. The same may apply for Idols. So if you do try it, be prepared to possibly take one out of they duke it out too much. Just my 2 cents. |
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#347
08/21/2005, 12:55 PM
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cool i have a 90gal refugium i can stick one in if it really comes down to it or should i get 1 establish it and then add a smaller idol? and the sponge would be awesome i love sponges
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{ Something witty and entertaining } |
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#348
08/21/2005, 01:45 PM
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keefsama, where are you on LI? I don't have enough sponge for the winter yet and the place I collect it, my friend's house, for some reason he cleaned all the growth from his dock. He is a cleaning fanatic but who cleans the sponges from under a dock? I am hoping I can get some from one of his neighbors as they only grow on the south shore and I have only seen them in Seaford. I feed it to the Idol every day and it is his favorite food.
You are welcome to see my tank anytime, I am never home on weekends but I am usually monday to thursday at night. I am going boating now, can't miss a good boat party. Paul |
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#349
08/21/2005, 02:32 PM
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im in belport
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{ Something witty and entertaining } |
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#350
08/22/2005, 10:23 AM
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Zfunk,
Don't worry, I'm still here lurking and reading even though I'm not always posting. For everyone here, something I just remembered and possibly posted in one of the other MI threads. I recently took a trip down to the Aquarium of the Pacific in Long Beach, calif. They have a rather large outdoor shark tank and in there they have a school of about 6 MI's that are very large and fat. There is no rocks or hiding places in the tank, only a sandy bottom. I talked to one of the workers there who told me that they have been in that tank since the aquarium opened, about 6 years ago I beleive. He said that is the only place they have been able to kep them alive is in that one tank. He said all of the ones that were in the other tanks they have did not survive. I did notice that when they swam, they always stayed close together. There seemed to be one leader of teh group. I also saw that they would constantly graze on the algae that was growing on the sides of the tank. Just thought I'd add this info for everyone as I just remembered it. I may try and see if I can contact them and possibly get more info from someone who has been there from the begining. Take care everyone and keep the info coming.
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Click the red house for my tank build thread. Have you THANKED a Veteran lately for the freedoms you take for granted each day? |
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