Natural History of Corals and Thier Environs

[thackray]

Randy, Boomer, others,

I’m looking for information about the natural history of corals and their environs. Specifically, I’m interested in a time line showing the evolution of the coral family (cnidarians) along with a corresponding time line showing the changing atmosphere (gas composition, pressure) and ocean (salinity, mineral content, etc).

Of course this is speculative information and may not exist in the same place but any information or references on the above subjects would be appreciated.

(Should I post this somewhere else as well?)

Phil Thackray

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Eric's coral forum might also be a good place.


This book may be helpful:

Corals in Space and Time: The Biogeography and Evolution of the Scleractinia
by J.E.N. Veron

[thackray]

Thanks Randy I'll look for it.

Phil Thackray

[Boomer]

Phil

Right up my alley

You need more of a geology refs for that. Here are some books

The one Randy gave is a fairly good book for that. The biogeography is great. The only issue I have with it is it only covers Scleractinia. The book is void of other corals. There is nothing on the great rise of corals in the fossil record from the Paleozoic time, where they flourished.


The Evolution of Coral Reef Communities, by Fagerstrom, about 600 pages

The issue here is this book deals with the whole reef community and how they changed with time, so many groups are discussed, not just corals

So, you are left for the need of a Invertebrate Paleontology book, where 90 % of it is on other animals. However, these are the only books that discuss the evolution of cnidarians

Fossil Invertebrates by Boardman, has 50 pages on the evolution of cnidarians

Invertebrate Fossils by Mooer 50 pages on corals with many, many line drawings. One of the best books there ever was.



To get all that you would want in book form you would need all of the above. You can always get these books from a public library even if they do not have them. They will just submit a form to the major state university for a loan and poof you could have all of them in 2 weeks. The same thing Phil if you are looking for a technical article, only here you will get a photo copy that you can keep and for free. I have lots of them form doing this.


For on-line you can start here

http://www.coris.noaa.gov/about/welcome.html

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/cnidaria/cnidaria.html

http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Cnidaria&contgroup=Animals

http://www.unige.ch/~galliot/galliot_ijdb2002.pdf.

http://www.ukans.edu/~paleo/treatise.html


It is to bad there is no text on the corals through time, you would think there would be with all the interest in corals in recent years. Veron's book is about the closest thing there is and much is left out. I have yet seen a website that has all you want, but the list of books I gave would make you quite content, I would think

[Hobster]

Boomer,

Those are some great links. One doesn't seem to work:
http://www.unige.ch/~galliot/galliot_ijdb2002.pdf.

If you don't mind me asking, what does MEO/op-tech stand for under your occupation?
Thanks

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There is nothing on the great rise of corals in the fossil record from the Paleozoic time, where they flourished.

Something that you remember seeing happen when you were just a boy?

[Boomer]

Funny we are today

Hob

http://www.unige.ch/~galliot/galliot_ijdb2002.pdf


Here are some more

http://www.coralreef.gov/proceedings...0Lajeunese.pdf

http://web.macam98.ac.il/~biology/co...al%20reefs.pdf

Mobile Equipment Operation (pit) and Operations Technican (plant). I now work in a big iron mine for Randy, as he has this thing for iron I moved to the plant to be closer to the finshed product, as Randy was getting a little to picky We have had many posts on it in the past Here is one

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...k&pagenumber=2

[Hobster]

Thanks Boomer. I am familar with the area. I used to live outside Mpls. My sister is in Stillwater and has a cabin up in Grand Marais, I remember as a young kid going on a "tour" of the iron mines. Must be tough working for Randy. That thread you posted is beyond me. The only thing I could get out of it was that Randy was on vacation AGAIN.

[thackray]

Boomer,

Thank you for the bibliography and links,

Randy, Boomer,

Let me be more to the point.

I was hoping that by observing the rise and fall of coral populations verses “tank conditions� over the last several hundred million years we might infer something about coral husbandry today. I think that most aquarists would say that ideal tank conditions would be met by the pre-industrial atmosphere and ocean. But corals did not evolve in that chemistry neither was it the chemistry of their heyday, the Paleozoic period.

I suppose that I’m most interested in the period when cnidarians first appeared up until the atmospheric and oceanic chemistries reached pre-industrial conditions.

I found a used copy of the book Randy mentioned. I’ll need to get to the library to see Boomer’s first recommendation because its expensive (couldn’t find it used).

Now that I’ve clarified my purpose perhaps some other references come to mind.

TIA

Phil Thackray

[Habib]

Phil

There should be a thread in this forum about calcareous algae and magnesium level in the oceans a long time ago when Boomer was still in diapers.

I was hoping that by observing the rise and fall of coral populations verses “tank conditions� over the last several hundred million years we might infer something about coral husbandry today

I belive that it a very complicated combination of salinity, temperature, water chemistry , light , water level ,......

And usually the changes were (i assume) very slow.

Besides that perhaps no one knows exactly what is in the soup we call aquarium water.

[Boomer]

Now that I’ve clarified my purpose perhaps some other references come to mind

That expensive book I have , Also the other book you are or have just ordered.

I saw that Hab

And I agee with what Hab has said. In short you really can't compare today with Paleozoic times or even earlier Cenozoic times. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

Start walking Phil


http://www.google.com/search?q=ries+...utf-8&oe=utf-8

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...corals&spell=1

Here is just one I pulled from the above


http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/outre...oralintro.html

[Boomer]

Oop's here are some more on seawater


Paleo

http://www.google.com/search?q=compo...&start=20&sa=N


Meszo

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...sozoic&spell=1

Ceno

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...nozoic&spell=1

[Habib]

Boomer
Older Than the Cretaceous

Hobby Experience: 30M + years

[Boomer]

[thackray]

From one of Boomer’s links -
“Large vascular plants, with deep and extensive rooting systems, arose and spread over the continents starting about 380 million years ago during the Devonian Period. The effects on atmospheric composition of the occupation of the land by the plants was twofold. First, the uptake of nutrients from rocks resulted in the enhanced weathering of Ca-Mg silicate minerals. This resulted in accelerated removal of atmospheric CO2 via conversion to dissolved HCO3-, transport of HCO3- by rivers to the oceans, and deposition of HCO3- as Ca-Mg carbonates in marine sediments. The tree-accelerated weathering was balanced by greenhouse and CO2/plant induced deceleration of weathering due to falling CO2, and this resulted in the stabilization of CO2 at lower levels.�
Robert Berner, Yale Univ, Dept. of Geology and Geophysics
Boomer, Habib,
From what I’m seeing so far, the dominant molecule of the Paleozoic period was CO2. Through the mechanism described above, CO2 powered the transport of the principal components of seawater from the land to the sea. Such high CO2 levels would have acidified the ocean allowing the calcium and magnesium carbonates to dissolve into the matrix we know today. But the pH would be lower than today allowing higher level of dissolved Ca, Mg and carbonates.
As plants continued to use up CO2 eventually the seawater pH would begin to rise. During this rise it’s likely that calcium and alkalinity remained at or near saturation levels. Potential calcifying Cnidarians were testing this matrix and eventually the pH rose to suitable levels and “calcifiers� took off. Chemistry was no different back then and the relationship between CO2, pH and alkalinity demanded that with high CO2 (CO2 remained above 1000ppm even at the end of the Paleozoic Era) the alkalinity must be high to support the “break through� pH levels.
It would seem that the heyday of corals was characterized by high carbon dioxide and high alkalinity levels at suitable pH levels. Is this the lesson of Paleozoic Era?
I’m going to keep reading.
Phil Thackray