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  #1  
Old 12/04/2007, 02:16 PM
ls7corvete ls7corvete is offline
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Propagation equipment formula/guidelines

After a lot of searching and reading I have found that much of the equipment used for propagation needs to fall within certain guidelines to be successful.

For example:

For tanks in greenhouses you should look to spend <1$/gallon, .50$/gallon is even better, with tanks at least 24" deep(temperature stability etc.)

Would anyone like to elaborate? Flow, lighting, etc.

With some input perhaps we can find a formula for building a successful system of any size.
  #2  
Old 12/04/2007, 02:57 PM
fatrip fatrip is offline
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there are a few flaws in your formula idea. first what do you mean by saying spending 1$per gallon? is that weekly monthly yearly? not sure what you are really talking about there. also there are to many veryables and personal preferences. what works for some one might be totaly different for another person.this is totaly dependant on the person as well. some people are just lazyeror morforgetful and want more atomated things than others. i dont think you are goin to come up with an easy formula and it is going to take you way longer to put all the data to gether than i think you expected.
  #3  
Old 12/04/2007, 03:29 PM
A.T.T.R A.T.T.R is offline
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over 2 or 3 k in about 300 gallons here so..
tahts about 10 a gallon if thats what you mean
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  #4  
Old 12/04/2007, 03:34 PM
fatrip fatrip is offline
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now is that for initial set up?? how much to run a month?
  #5  
Old 12/04/2007, 04:30 PM
ls7corvete ls7corvete is offline
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Ack, no no, I must have worded that poorly, I meant .50$-1$ a gallon to purchase/construct the tanks ONLY. For example, a 100 gallon rubbermaid bucket would cost ~60$, so .60$/gallon. They are 24" deep IMHO, the minimum depth I would like for a greenhouse tank.

I was hoping for your input on what the rest would cost, I have looked of coarse but I am new to this.
  #6  
Old 12/04/2007, 04:57 PM
airinhere airinhere is offline
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HA ha ha ha ha ha. Woot, you had me going.

Setup costs are the least of your worries. Cost for new stock to breed, time to breed them and cost to keep them alive long enough to properly raise to the point you could sale them is just the beginning. Then you have to consider the potential (unknown, I might add) of some of your stock dying or getting parasites, illnesses, whatever. You have to account for the cost to ship and the effort to find reasonable offers to buy your stock. Wholesalers are a great option, but they need large quantities of coral at a time and want to pay the same for your aquacultured corals that they are paying for wild caught. Once you develop a reputation (see ORA) you can charge a premium, but that is not going to be the case right away. Selling to stores will make you slightly better money, but unless you are prepared for an accounting based operation, it is going to be very difficult. Plus, the temperment of local sales will directly impact your overall success. You can almost forget about e-bay selling or Frags.com selling. The minor amount of sales from private buyers will generate much higher profits per coral, but will prevent most retail or commercial buyers from wanting to deal with you.

Point is, do this because it is something you love. Money will come. It does not come quick or all at once and your systems stability is far more important than its initial profitability.

Research and put together as good a system as you can plan it to be. Then start building your reputation in your local community. Dont worry about figuring out any magic formula for this line of work.
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  #7  
Old 12/04/2007, 05:57 PM
ls7corvete ls7corvete is offline
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Quote:
Research and put together as good a system as you can plan it to be. Then start building your reputation in your local community. Dont worry about figuring out any magic formula for this line of work.
The goal of sticking to a budget is to get a better idea of costs if/when I decide to increase production and grow the business. I need to know I can be successful on a budget on a small scale before investing in a larger scale.

I plan to just sell a small amount online and local until, like you said, I have gotten a reputation. I would like to stay away from higher priced and limited supply items similar to ORA. There is a much larger market for easier to grow and well known species, they or coarse are cheaper and require a smaller budget.
  #8  
Old 12/04/2007, 06:44 PM
fatrip fatrip is offline
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ic ic ic now i understand what you are trying to acomplish...lol...well you'll need a good skimmer....all of the things would depend on how big your system is goin to be and how many tanks. let us know that and then we could figure on how big of a skimmer you'll need, how much suplemental lighting, how much flow, aka pumps and power heads. how much LR you'll need, how many heaters and or chillers. what part of the country your from? there are a lot of things that all depend on geography and how big you are going to initially make it.
  #9  
Old 12/04/2007, 06:56 PM
ls7corvete ls7corvete is offline
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The idea I have been thinking about latley is to use the 100g rubber maids paired with a 55g barrel for a sump/fuge. For the sump I have been thinking of putting it underground for geothermal temperature control. Not sure how many of these pairs I would setup, or where I would put them.

I would like to use air lifts and possibly VHO lighting to supplement sunlight and allow working in mornings/evenings. I am not sure if the price for this relates to a larger system, seems cheap enough though.
  #10  
Old 12/04/2007, 06:58 PM
airinhere airinhere is offline
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One thing I am doing is looking at the different methods people here have used to set up their prop systems. Redox has a great thread going right now that is loaded with useful information.

Once you have designed your tank system, heating and cooliong figured out, and you have established your filtration methods, you can start to look at ways to keep costs down.

Unfortunatly, with so many variables out there, its really only by trying different methods out and finding out if they work. It would be terrible to find out that your tanks hit 55F at night during the winter because you did not account for proper methods of heating.

Even the most basic items needed are very subjective. Tanks can be glass, plexiglass, rubbermaid tubs or cement structures. Costs and benefits/drawbacks for each style vary wildly.

Take the time to carefully plan your desired method of farm and then try to price shop the parts.

One idea might be to look at the potential profitability for a small scale vs large scale operation and then use those figures to adjust your proposed budget.
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  #11  
Old 12/04/2007, 08:44 PM
ls7corvete ls7corvete is offline
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http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/scan/

I have been looking at this site to get an idea of soil temperatures and thinking about how deep my tanks need to be. I am assuming that heating in the winter will not be a problem in florida in a greenhouse but of coarse I cannot take the tanks out of the soil every season.
  #12  
Old 12/05/2007, 03:58 AM
airinhere airinhere is offline
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Awesome link. Too bad its useless for California. Right now I am locked in at the point of determining what methods for heating will be effective during the winter here in northern california. I am planning on using the black plastic (not rubbermaid) type containers (for cattle) that will be submerged almost completely into the ground. I will leave a lip of 8 inches above the ground to keep detrius from getting into my water. I will only fill the tanks to ground level, and will need to get plexiglass covers to put onto the tanks to keep evaporation at a minimm during the winter.

I am trying things out with two small tanks first so I can make sure my idea is workable.

Untill I can get a real idea of what is going to be needed to make my system a reality, setting up a budget is impeded by the cost of research and development.
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  #13  
Old 12/05/2007, 09:09 PM
ls7corvete ls7corvete is offline
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Interesting, I am guessing you will not have a problem with cooling in your area? What are you planning to use to stop evaporation?
  #14  
Old 12/06/2007, 01:01 AM
airinhere airinhere is offline
Slowly growing gills.
 
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Cooling during the winter is my biggest issue. During the Summer, I am planning to keep my tanks temperature stable by sinking the containers into the ground. Even on very hot days, I should still never see my water get above the low 80's. If I do need more cooling (it can reach over 100F here) I can just use fans and evaporative cooling.

During the winter, I am going to keep plexiglass covers on everything, but during the Summer, I will remove those.

Evaporation is only a consideration for its cooling effects. I will have gravity fed auto-topoffs running to my tanks, so water loss from evaporation will be negligible.

My personal style for setting everything up is to try and use as little technology as is possible. Gravity fed auto-topoff and water changer. Airstone driven water movement. Natural sunlight. Macroalgae and algae mat filtration.

Heating and cooling will account for the largest part of electrical usage for my current concept. Everything else will be as simple as possible. By making careful purchases, I am trying in my own way to keep my costs to a minimum, but I am still addressing every demand the corals will have.
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  #15  
Old 12/07/2007, 07:33 PM
ls7corvete ls7corvete is offline
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Quote:
My personal style for setting everything up is to try and use as little technology as is possible. Gravity fed auto-topoff and water changer. Airstone driven water movement. Natural sunlight. Macroalgae and algae mat filtration.
Ditto. Though I do have a wave2k that I am buying for cheap I would like to try.

Linear air pumps look nice and will work both on a small scale to start and a larger scale as well.

For lights, I was planning on VHO as I can get internal reflectors and the ballasts and bulbs are dirt cheap. If I can find some nice stuff used I should be able to get in for ~.30$/watt. I should only need a small amount for a smaller greenhouse(partial shaded) and only enough light to make working at night and in the morning easy for a larger lighthouse.

Speaking of greenhouse, any input on what I should be looking for? There is some nice threads here but I need something that will work for testing(a couple 110g rubbermaids) as well as a slightly larger scale(1000g?).

You guys have any idea on what I should expect for prices? $/sqft?
 

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