Reef Central Online Community
Tampa Bay Saltwater

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community Archives > General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01/05/2008, 02:33 PM
Crumbs Crumbs is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 65
Keeping deep water species

I have some leads on deep water species I would like to keep but I have not bin able to find any charts or formulas to calculate deep water temperatures. Very roughly I have calculated a 10 deg F drop for every 100 feet. I may be well off and the temperature depth ratio could fluxuate at greater depth.

Does anyone know how much temps will drop from 2,000 to 8,000 feet? Or further salinity fluxuations at such depths?


Thanks,
Chris
  #2  
Old 01/05/2008, 03:34 PM
o.c.d. o.c.d. is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary Alb. Canada
Posts: 292
wouldn't you be better off researching the animals and the husbandry used to keep them what are the species your thinking about keeping?
  #3  
Old 01/05/2008, 04:35 PM
Crumbs Crumbs is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 65
Did I say that I already have them? I have not bin able to find any information on temperatures at great depths- that is why I am asking.
  #4  
Old 01/05/2008, 05:45 PM
o.c.d. o.c.d. is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary Alb. Canada
Posts: 292
Ya but if you name them maybe someone else has info to help. This is what I found hope it helps.Still wondering what your going to keep though sounds interesting.http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/lin....html&edu=high
  #5  
Old 01/05/2008, 06:07 PM
Aadler Aadler is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 614
Send a message via ICQ to Aadler Send a message via AIM to Aadler
I cant help you out specifically, but make sure you consider the impact that the pressure at those depths has on the critter, it may be that you dont want to keep the temp so cool since you wont have that pressure, thing that comes to mind are squid.
__________________
MiniBow 7 - WooHoo
  #6  
Old 01/05/2008, 10:05 PM
billsreef billsreef is offline
Moderator
10 & Over Club
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 12,688
Send a message via ICQ to billsreef Send a message via AIM to billsreef Send a message via Yahoo to billsreef
Whoever is able to get you those deepwater fish should be able to give the temperature and salinity data for the depth of collection. There are many factors that can effect temperature changes with depth, such as currents. It's not unusual to find the surface temperature to be the same or only a couple of degrees cooler at a 100ft. At the same time it's quite possible to hit a thermocline where the temperature rapidly changes several degrees in a only a couple of feet.
__________________
Bill

"LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi)
  #7  
Old 01/06/2008, 03:04 AM
demonsp demonsp is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: el paso tx
Posts: 3,651
I did read an article on this subject. It was a fish that was caught at 100 ft and with proper accumulating to the temp your tank is at .They are much more adaptible to there surrondings then coral. Also think 100 ft in the deepest they can dive and catch and keep alive.
__________________
Lance H.
  #8  
Old 01/06/2008, 11:01 AM
billsreef billsreef is offline
Moderator
10 & Over Club
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 12,688
Send a message via ICQ to billsreef Send a message via AIM to billsreef Send a message via Yahoo to billsreef
100' is basically still shallow. Not much difference between there and the surface in terms of temperature and salinity. It is deep enough to require the fish undergoes decompression, but nothing else is needed for them adapt to surface conditions such as our tanks. Richard Pyle has brough fish up from much deeper, around 400'. These still can be adapted to life in a tank, but they require a much longer decompression time when collected. Temps tend to be a bit cooler at those depths, that needs to be considered also. I think the OP is looking at things from over 1,000' based on his post, that not brings up temp, but adaptations to great pressure that could be a consideration for getting them to live in a tank.
__________________
Bill

"LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi)
  #9  
Old 01/06/2008, 03:04 PM
GreshamH GreshamH is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 5,113
Many of our "rarer" fishes in the trade are caught below 100'. Baby Clown triggers pop right to mind as do angels, basslets and wrasses.
__________________
Gresham
_______________________________
Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time
  #10  
Old 01/06/2008, 04:33 PM
Crumbs Crumbs is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 65
Thanks for the input everyone. The fish Im interested in lives from 1829-9925 m. It will surface to 1500 m. at night and would be collected from Hawaii.

Bill, do you have a link to Richard Pylee's thread or does anyone know of any public aquariums with deep water displays?
  #11  
Old 01/06/2008, 07:31 PM
billsreef billsreef is offline
Moderator
10 & Over Club
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 12,688
Send a message via ICQ to billsreef Send a message via AIM to billsreef Send a message via Yahoo to billsreef
Do a google search on Richard Pyle. He's an ichthyologist that does a lot of work with deep water species. Probably had discovered more new species of fish below 100' than anyone else.
__________________
Bill

"LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi)
  #12  
Old 01/07/2008, 01:16 AM
kydsexy kydsexy is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Middletown, CT
Posts: 303
Send a message via AIM to kydsexy
haha, who else sees this as a problem? did anybody watch the discovery channel presentation of the giant squid? remember how much luck they had keeping them alive? what YOU need to do first is try and keep 300' species alive. cod, pollock, haddock. if you can keep those alive without ANY issues you may be fine. the issue is not keeping them, but keeping them alive in small areas. just search for some oceanographic map, that'll give you rough ideas. the deepest water fish i've kept were winter/summer flounder with no chiller. from birth, showed impressive growth. i fertilized the eggs myself and grew out from there.
__________________
i really love this game
  #13  
Old 01/07/2008, 08:22 PM
matt_54351 matt_54351 is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 23
2000-8000ft is going to be a big difference. someone with a physics major will be able to calculate the effect of pressure on temp and salinity. check noaa.gov, they are the best bet for good information.
  #14  
Old 01/08/2008, 12:44 AM
Crumbs Crumbs is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 65
I do see it as a major challenge. The fish would be decompressed and shipped with an arrive alive guarantee. I have read about the Japanese that have attempted to keep a deep water frilled shark with out success. Im wondering if any public aquariums have really deep water setups. I dont think there would be an arrive alive guarantee if it was impossible to do. Im having a hard time finding any info on deep water husbandry.
  #15  
Old 01/08/2008, 02:51 AM
Crumbs Crumbs is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally posted by billsreef
Do a google search on Richard Pyle. He's an ichthyologist that does a lot of work with deep water species. Probably had discovered more new species of fish below 100' than anyone else.
Thanks alot for the lead Bill. Alot of stuff came up under Richards name. I have alot of research to do.

And not to worry. I am not jumping into this until I am fully prepared. The fish alone cost a near fortune.
  #16  
Old 01/08/2008, 02:57 AM
GreshamH GreshamH is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 5,113
Quote:
Originally posted by matt_54351
2000-8000ft is going to be a big difference. someone with a physics major will be able to calculate the effect of pressure on temp and salinity. check noaa.gov, they are the best bet for good information.
Heck, 2K-8K feet is bad enough, he's talking meters

Quote:
The fish Im interested in lives from 1829-9925 m. It will surface to 1500 m
__________________
Gresham
_______________________________
Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time
  #17  
Old 01/08/2008, 06:33 AM
billsreef billsreef is offline
Moderator
10 & Over Club
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 12,688
Send a message via ICQ to billsreef Send a message via AIM to billsreef Send a message via Yahoo to billsreef
BTW, what fish are looking to get?
__________________
Bill

"LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi)
  #18  
Old 01/08/2008, 06:45 AM
Spracklcat Spracklcat is offline
--sister of geek--
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 1,459
And if the fish needs further decompression, seahorse keepers are known to do them in their homes for swim bladder issues--they have a good protocol.
  #19  
Old 01/08/2008, 11:06 AM
GreshamH GreshamH is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 5,113
Any sea horses collected below 100'?
__________________
Gresham
_______________________________
Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time
  #20  
Old 01/08/2008, 11:40 AM
aninjaatemyshoe aninjaatemyshoe is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,370
I think it is pretty obvious that he does not want to specifically name the fish, otherwise he would already have mentioned it. Something smells very fishy here, pun intended.
__________________
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of that magnitude!
  #21  
Old 01/08/2008, 05:48 PM
GreshamH GreshamH is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 5,113
We can still fish for the answer though
__________________
Gresham
_______________________________
Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time
  #22  
Old 01/08/2008, 06:18 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
Another person that would likely be able to easily answer your questions would be Dr. Gerald Allen.
  #23  
Old 01/08/2008, 07:56 PM
bchristie bchristie is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 56
By your "calculations" of a 10 degree drop per 100 FSW, you would be looking at temperatures of approx -90 degrees F at a depth of 2000 FSW...try again.

Many deep water species are kept at public aquaria, I can think of approx 2 dozen species I've kept in my time in this industry...but the group consensus here is right, something indeed seems "fishy" here, so I'll ask again, if you can name the species perhaps someone can offer some advice.
__________________
Barrett L. Christie
Senior Aquarist- Quarantine
A Public Aquarium
  #24  
Old 01/08/2008, 11:12 PM
Crumbs Crumbs is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 65
bchristie, that calculation only applied to several hundred feet worked out from a depth and temp chart. I have not found any deep temperature reading from deep tropical water or in the specific region of the collection.

So what temperature do you maintain your deep water displays and what depth are the species collected from?

Last edited by Crumbs; 01/08/2008 at 11:23 PM.
  #25  
Old 01/08/2008, 11:35 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
Crumbs, to be frank.. it is rather annoying that you are trying to pick people brains for information but refuse to disclose the species you need help with. If you have not noticed, that is the general mood that every poster in this thread has taken.

Not only have you not disclosed the species, but you have flat out ignored several direct requests for the information.

If this is a commercial venture, then you may want to spend the time and money doing the proper research. You have been given some good starting points.

If it is an illegal operation or illegal species then I suggest you look elsewhere for the help.

You are certainly free to continue as you have been. I am just trying to kindly let you know that these types of cat and mouse posts annoy the crap out of people.
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef Central Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2009