Planning a coral propagation system

[Pillz]

Wow, great read. love the set up sam! cant wait to get some corals off of ya!

[sammy33]

Originally posted by sharkdude
cool! looks like it works well for you.

yeah, I added mine pre-fill so not quite as much trouble as you went through.

so where's the pics of the live stuff already!?

check out the various threads here:
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewforu...bd3f5c3d83a863

your documentation and approach to your project reminds me of several of the threads I read over there.

Thanks again for your suggestions. I hope to have some "live stuff" in the form of growing corals in the tanks in the coming weeks. I do have a couple of bits of live rock some live sand and some cheato in the refugium but nothing picture worthy.

I really want to share as many ideas as possible concerning coral propagation. This is a fairly small system but could potentially produce a good bit and hopefully be efficient at the same time. I am always open to suggestions.

[sammy33]

Here is my new “toy� I am experimenting with.


This is a Super Luft Pump SL-38 piston style air pump. I am going to try using airlifts in each prop tank for additional water circulation using this pump for the supply. The specs on this pump rate it as 38L/hr (liters per hour) at 18 watts. This translates to somewhere around 650-700 GPH of water movement in a ¾� airlift that is about 10� tall! Note that the Mag 7 uses about 70 watts to generate 700 GPH of flow!

The pump comes with a nifty four output adjustable valve. These valves will allow me to adjust the flow to each tank on the fly.

The airlifts will be a bit more efficient than adding three power heads (energy savings) and would give me about 175 - 350 GPH of additional flow in each of the prop tanks for about 6 watts per tank. Having one or two lifts in each tank along with individual heaters would allow me to temporarily isolate each tank from the system for quarantine or treatment if I needed to. I may also run the air pump on a battery back up system for an additional fail-safe. Worst case in a power outage – I would still have water movement in each tank.

After a trip to the big orange box hardware store to get some ¾� PVC and a few parts this is what I came up with. It is a combination frag rack/airlift frame. I took it out of the tank and set it on the eggcrate material to take a picture. Many thanks to dendronepthya for sharing his airlift frame design.


The back of the frame has a couple of T’s with short lengths of PVC on the bottom for support and a couple of elbows to create the cross frame. The front corners of the rack are the airlifts with elbows on the top and bottom. The elbow on the top has a small 3/16� diameter hole for the airline tubing to run to the bottom of the lift.


This was the best solution I could come up with for this size tank . There is, unfortunately, very little reference material on airlift design. I might try building another one of these racks with ½� PVC to try and save on real estate but the ¾� seems to work well for the airlifts. The flow from these things is quite impressive and I am really happy with the performance of these lifts (so far). Here is a shot with the circulation pump turned off and only the airlifts running.


I have two lifts in this center tank as it will require the most flow. The air outputs for each lift is cut down to about half of the total. I could crank them up and get even more flow but things get pretty messy with that much air and saltwater blowing around. One thing I did initially was that I made the airlifts a bit too tall. Having just the very tip of each of the elbows sticking out of the water allows the water to still flow nicely but cuts down on the amount of spray produced.

My best guess on the GPH flow that they are producing is roughly about 175-200 GPH from each airlift. I calculated that the air pump that I am using is capable of about 700 GPH and if I distribute the total flow evenly among four airlifts this will give me about 175 GPH on each.

The breakdown of water flow:
Each tank is about 24 gallons. The return pump from the sump (Mag 5) supplies about 140 GPH to each tank with another 175 GPH from a single airlift. This gives a minimum of 315 GPH (tanks 1&3) and a max of about 490 GPH flow (tank 2). This should work for well for the corals I have selected.

[sammy33]

I finally got some more time to work on my prop system today. I spent the morning building a basic wood canopy. This one is only 5” tall and the top is hinged so I can open it and it will stay upright. I am thinking about throwing a coat of black paint and a layer of varnish on the wood so it will last a bit.


I installed a Sunlight Supply 2x24 watt T5 retrofit with one Giesemann Midday 6000K lamp and one Giesemann Pure Actinic lamp. Being able to open the hood and have it stay upright will give me fairly easy access to the frags.


I would probably use two of the 6000K lamps but it would likely be too bright for the softies I am planning on. This setup will be over tank 2 of the system and should provide plenty of growing power for the Sarcophyton and Sinularia. The actinic lamp should help the corals keep their colors and will make any pictures I take a bit more vibrant.


This light setup is quite bright! My initial observation is that the T5 lights will work quite well. From what I have read and the data I have seen on the T5’s they should provide the spectrum/intensity for growth and should also be efficient. I feel that this efficiency is a key component of successful coral propagation. This is the first time I have used T5 being an old salt metal halide and VHO user.

I am going to test this one throughout the week and then hopefully I can build the other two canopies for the other tanks next weekend. I am thinking of using a single 24w T5HO lamp on each of the other tanks – probably just a single Aquablue or maybe one of the new UV Lighting (URI) Actinic White lamps?

[bond007069]

Is your Super Luft Air pump noisy?

Nice setup

[sammy33]

Originally posted by bond007069
Is your Super Luft Air pump noisy?

Nice setup

Thank you for the compliment.

The Super Luft is not as noisy as I expected it to be but is louder than I like. It is louder than a regular diaphragm style air pump and I have actually started turning it off when I am working in the coral room.

[sammy33]

Well it has been just over a month since I first put saltwater in the prop system. I tested all of the parameters and since everything is looking good I decided to add some corals and start farming.



I have a nice mixed Zoanthid colony(Green-purple skirt, Pink-purple skirt, Purple-purple skirt), Green Toadstool, Blue Ricordea, Green Stripe Mushroom and a Fiji Yellow Leather. This is good portion of the corals that were on my initial list so I am happy with this start.

These are all nice healthy mother corals and will be fun to frag. I am going to let them acclimate to the change in lighting for several weeks and then I will start creating divisions.

[Lenny C]

I'm lovin the thread and everything looks real nice. I'm not a nubie but I have never heard of air lifts. Can you post some sites or threads that helped you learn about them? Thanks.

[RobinsonFam1]

sweet Sam! keep it up!
hows the rock set up working for ya?

[sammy33]

Originally posted by Lenny C
I'm lovin the thread and everything looks real nice. I'm not a nubie but I have never heard of air lifts. Can you post some sites or threads that helped you learn about them? Thanks.

Thank you for the compliments.

There is not much information on using air lifts in a propagation application. Check this thread for a good summary:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=866815

RobinsonFam1 - The tank stands are working quite well. Thank you again for your help!

[RobinsonFam1]

anytime man!
once i get more money rollin here ill be sure to come by again!

[Shawnts106]

This is fun!

Why no acros?
Why no Montis?

[Rekonn]

He first wants to concentrate on those that are fast growing and easy to keep.

[sammy33]

Originally posted by Shawnts106
This is fun!

Why no acros?
Why no Montis?

I do love the Scleractinians! My nano reef is full of them.

I also am a big fan of the more colorful soft corals. Check one of my earlier posts for an explanation of my choice of corals.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...48#post7263248

Rekonn - You are right. I chose fast growers and low energy corals for this system.

[raaden]

Very nice system, especially like the sump setup and the airlifts.

How has it been working out anymore good stuff.

[sammy33]

raaden -
Thank you for checking out my propagation thread. I have actually decided not to use the airlifts for a couple of reasons. The main one being that the Super Luft pump is just loud enough to be very annoying whenever I am working in the coral room. The constant humming/buzzing noise in the background can wear on the nerves.

The other reason I removed the air lift is it produces a bit too much spray. I am using T5's in a canopy and small fixtures that are only a few inches from the surface and the splash was a problem for me. I have actually been able to minimize the spray by adjusting the height of the output and have solved that problem but the noise was the dealbreaker. I did try placing the air pump under a box but it got too hot and I don't think it will last as long running constantly hot.

For anyone considering Air Lifts-
The air lift system does produce a ton of flow very efficiently and has the capability to run several different tanks from a single pump if you use valves. I think it would be more beneficial on a larger system and in a more industrial setting where the salt creep is less of an issue. The use of pendant lights hanging at least 8" above the water would eliminate most of the splash on your lighting. I would also consider placing the air pump in another room or in covered storage outside to minimize the noise.

[sammy33]

Polyps not opening -
I had some issues with some of the zoanthids and sarcophtyon not opening. I tested my water and everyting seemed to be in line with pH, CA, Alk, Temp, SG, Nitrate, Phosphate - all in check.

Hmm?

For almost two weeks the sarcophyton (and some zoanthids) did not open. After I tested the water I decided to change out the carbon with a Poly-filter pad. Low and behold the pad turned greenish brown after a few days indicating that it may be removing ammonia...which I did not test for. Oops!

So then I immediately tested for ammonia and found that there was a very low level of ammonia in the tanks (after running the Poly-filter). I can not explain it. The system must be experiencing some die-off from live rock (I added about 15 lbs) or maybe a snail or two croaked? It could possibly still be cycling in the sense that the DSB in the refugium is still maturing?

To skim or not to skim?
This prompted me to start thinking about a skimmer. One of the things I did not take into consideration was the amount I have been feeding this system. Phyto additions 3-4 times a week. I have also been rinsing my cheato from my SPS system in this system to provide some extra floc for my Neptheids. This is just a bit much for my young prop system to handle (hence the low level ammonia) so I decided to add a skimmer.

My first try was a Seaclone 100 I have. Now this is an "OK" skimmer but it was just not enough for this system and always seems to be quirky with the air adjustment.

Second skimmer was a Lees Counter Current. I was thinking this would be a good fit since I was using the Super Luft air pump for the air lift system already. Very easy to just plug in a couple more air hoses to the Lees skimmer to get it running. It actually performed well and pulled some nasty brown skimmate but I decided to not use the air lifts and the noisy pump (see previous post) so the Lees skimmer was out. Its a shame because it was only $20.00!

So in comes the third skimmer. I didn't want to aggressively skim but wanted to remove some of the pollution (that I am adding) to help control ammonia. I decided on an AquaC Urchin. The sump drain area is just big enough for the Urchin and it is doing a great job. Took about week to "kick in" but it is skimming fairly well.

This has resulted in some much happier corals (and less ammonia) with open polyps, clearer water, more stable pH and has helped with oxygen levels. I am now going to slowly increase phyto additions until I am back up to about 3 times a week.

Purple Up -
My softies have also responded well to a little dosing of Purple Up. I actually started dosing the Purple up for calcium and noticed it also has some Iodine in it. The Xenia do seem to grow more quickly with Iodine additions and it also seems to benefit the other softies. Note that Carib Sea's suggested dose is way too much (calcium for my tanks) and I only use about a 1/3 of the recommended and will likely cut down to a 1/4 of the recommended.

Some new pics

Green Pineapple Tree (Capnella)



Eagle Eye (Zoanthid)



Red People Eaters (Palythoa)



Purple People Eaters (Palythoa)

[Snarkys]

Originally posted by sammy33
Here is my new “toy� I am experimenting with.


This is a Super Luft Pump SL-38 piston style air pump. I am going to try using airlifts in each prop tank for additional water circulation using this pump for the supply. The specs on this pump rate it as 38L/hr (liters per hour) at 18 watts. This translates to somewhere around 650-700 GPH of water movement in a ¾� airlift that is about 10� tall! Note that the Mag 7 uses about 70 watts to generate 700 GPH of flow!

The pump comes with a nifty four output adjustable valve. These valves will allow me to adjust the flow to each tank on the fly.

The airlifts will be a bit more efficient than adding three power heads (energy savings) and would give me about 175 - 350 GPH of additional flow in each of the prop tanks for about 6 watts per tank. Having one or two lifts in each tank along with individual heaters would allow me to temporarily isolate each tank from the system for quarantine or treatment if I needed to. I may also run the air pump on a battery back up system for an additional fail-safe. Worst case in a power outage – I would still have water movement in each tank.

After a trip to the big orange box hardware store to get some ¾� PVC and a few parts this is what I came up with. It is a combination frag rack/airlift frame. I took it out of the tank and set it on the eggcrate material to take a picture. Many thanks to dendronepthya for sharing his airlift frame design.


The back of the frame has a couple of T’s with short lengths of PVC on the bottom for support and a couple of elbows to create the cross frame. The front corners of the rack are the airlifts with elbows on the top and bottom. The elbow on the top has a small 3/16� diameter hole for the airline tubing to run to the bottom of the lift.


This was the best solution I could come up with for this size tank . There is, unfortunately, very little reference material on airlift design. I might try building another one of these racks with ½� PVC to try and save on real estate but the ¾� seems to work well for the airlifts. The flow from these things is quite impressive and I am really happy with the performance of these lifts (so far). Here is a shot with the circulation pump turned off and only the airlifts running.


I have two lifts in this center tank as it will require the most flow. The air outputs for each lift is cut down to about half of the total. I could crank them up and get even more flow but things get pretty messy with that much air and saltwater blowing around. One thing I did initially was that I made the airlifts a bit too tall. Having just the very tip of each of the elbows sticking out of the water allows the water to still flow nicely but cuts down on the amount of spray produced.

My best guess on the GPH flow that they are producing is roughly about 175-200 GPH from each airlift. I calculated that the air pump that I am using is capable of about 700 GPH and if I distribute the total flow evenly among four airlifts this will give me about 175 GPH on each.

The breakdown of water flow:
Each tank is about 24 gallons. The return pump from the sump (Mag 5) supplies about 140 GPH to each tank with another 175 GPH from a single airlift. This gives a minimum of 315 GPH (tanks 1&3) and a max of about 490 GPH flow (tank 2). This should work for well for the corals I have selected.

so that one pump provides enough air to do how many airlifts like that ?

[raaden]

Sammy,
Nice pics...
I think the skimmer will go along way to reducing your ammonia issues and, atleast until the DSB gets going, will offset DOC levels from the phyto feeding.

Snarkys,
If calculated and setup well he could easily get about 300GPH per tank from 6 outlets. In a larger tank where larger piping can be used he could bump it up about another 100GPH per tank. I think in sammys case the nice part is that it runs all three tanks with one piece of equipment.

[Snarkys]

I want to do it on two 29's. that the right pump to use or is there a better option ? whats a good size pipe ?

[raaden]

As a general rule the larger the pipe diameter the greater the flow, but in the case of smallish tanks like that you will probably not want to use a huge pipe for space issues. You could probably even get away with a diaphragm pump depending on how much flow you want. A diaphragm pump would be much less expensive and quieter, and since you won't need a whole lot of head pressure it would work fine, although I would go for a "real" air pump if I could. Not sure if they make a blower that small or not but that would be even better. I would use atleast 1.5" pipe as the flow seriously degrades in pipe smaller than that.

I checked out the thread on the prop mods and that is pretty interesting stuff. I love to see people pushing the envelope. My only issues would be that it is alot of laminar flow, but with some diverters in a large tank it may make sense. The thing I like about airlifts are that you can put as many different points of flow in as you like with no increase in equipment or electrical costs.

For a greenhouse system I am planning I am going to be using two fairly large piston pumps to provide flow, skimming and water movement between tanks for about the costs of 2 GenX 800 gph pumps. Total volume will be around 2600 gals.

I would not want to even think about how much power I would be using if I had to use regular pumps and power heads.

[Snarkys]

ya after looking into it i see how that airlift could be more efficient than the modded power head because it doesn't all come from one source

[sammy33]

Originally posted by Snarkys
ya after looking into it i see how that airlift could be more efficient than the modded power head because it doesn't all come from one source

The airlifts provide a massive amount of controllable flow and are quite efficient as far as energy costs. The lift tubes diameter and length can influence how much flow you get through the pipes.

I would think the Super Luft pump SL-38 would be a good choice for the air power for 2 - 29g prop tanks. Coralife makes a larger one (SL-65) but it seems to be less efficient than the smaller one (SL-38). Note that these pumps make a bit of noise.

I would consider using 1" PVC/elbows for the lifts as you will likely increase your flow a bit more than I did by using only 3/4" pipes.

Using a SL-38 you could probably put two 1" lifts about 17-18" tall in each 29 and get about 400 to 450 GPH in each tank for roughly 9 Watts for each tank!

The other benefit of the airlifts is you will get basically zero heat transfer. No submerged pumps.

You can direct the outflow from the elbows to create even laminar flow or have them cross to create turbulence.

You can control the salt creep by raising/lowering the output elbows near the surface. If you hang your lights 6-8" off the water you can avoid the splash on the lights from the airlift outputs.

[fillibar]

A note about the shelving you got. Is that the type with the particle board shelves? I would worry about water or humidity issues. I had a bunch of those in our basement (prior to the fish tanks) that all started to mold on the bottom. The basement had some extra moisture at the time (the whole street has bad drainage) and every one turned into mold paradise. The particle board was too light, not even MDF. Just a warning if you got those...
Otherwise this looks like a cool setup.

[sammy33]

Originally posted by fillibar
A note about the shelving you got. Is that the type with the particle board shelves? I would worry about water or humidity issues. I had a bunch of those in our basement (prior to the fish tanks) that all started to mold on the bottom. The basement had some extra moisture at the time (the whole street has bad drainage) and every one turned into mold paradise. The particle board was too light, not even MDF. Just a warning if you got those...
Otherwise this looks like a cool setup.

Yup...it's cheap particle board. I have not had any issues so far but anticipate that the water from my fragging activities will eventually wear out the particle board. I did place sheets of plywood under each tank so the particle board is not supporting the tanks but makes a nice work surface.

I have plans to move this system in the next several months and will replace the boards with plywood. I also plan to seal the new plywood with a few coats of polyurethane to make it much more water resistant.