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  #51  
Old 01/10/2008, 12:52 PM
DarG DarG is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by dkle
I think 420 nm is the true actinic, which gives off a purple color. The 460 nm bulbs give off a bluer color and pop the blue and red color a bit better in my opinion.

I ran 250w DE Ushio 10k and AB 10k before. They were too yellow for my taste. I switched to Phoenix a few years ago and never look back. To me it gives a perfect light, which is a crisp white with just a hint of blue to highlight the acros. Of course, this is all personal taste.

However, I read this entire thread and thought to myself: G-man sounds really good, I really should look into this. A quick plug into Sanjay's website show:
Bulbs w/Icecap ballast PPFD shielded Not shielded

G-man megachrome 13k 63 79
G-man coral 13k 71 88
Phoenix 73 90

Did I miss something about the monster output of the G-man? or Did Sanjay not test the G-man bulbs that you guys are talking about?

The giesemann coral 13K (which is actually the 14.5) has a ppfd of 126 on the magnetic HQI ballast. Your are getting the 88 on an electronic ballast. The M80 ballast is the ballast that the bulb is spec'd to run on. 126 ppfd is the true output and just one very good example why DE lamps should be run on their spec, HQI magnetic ballasts.

BTW, I ran Phoenix 250 watt lamps for a little while. They were very very blue on both the magnetic and electronic ballasts. Far, far bluer than the Iwasaki 14000K which is actually a very crisp white bulb and an excellent choice for anyone wanting a 250 watt DE with good par, absolutely no yellow and just a slight hint of blue.

I know I have said this before in another thread but there are just too many different descriptions of the Phoenix bulbs in terms of color that I think it goes beyond individual perceptions. I think that some runs of the Phoenix bulbs are actually bluer than others. Either that or there are far more people who are color blind to blue than would seem possible. The Phoenix bulbs I had could have been branded TY-D-Bowl and it would have been a perfect name
  #52  
Old 01/10/2008, 01:28 PM
dkle dkle is offline
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I see! My setup uses Icecap ballast; and the setup discussed in this thread uses Icecap as well. That's why I've been using the Icecap data. But thanks for clearing that up! If I am ever to change my ballast to HQI, I'll give the G-man bulbs a chance.

As far as how blue the phoenix bulbs are, it is merely a matter of personal taste. I like the way mine looks, you don't like yours; and that's ok. What is important is that the readers of the thread hear from both sides so that they can make an informed decision. And I would say that unless you run the true HQI ballast, the Gman bulbs don't offer any advantage in terms of PPFD.

How much do the Gmann bulbs cost by the way? I did a quick search on the net and didn't see any vendors that sell them.
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  #53  
Old 01/10/2008, 03:22 PM
DarG DarG is offline
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The Giesemann lamps are very expensive, over 100 bucks each at most dealers.

Yes, the color of a lamp and how whether we like it or not is a personal choice, no doubt. But I was referring to the fact that some users state that the Phoenix is blue, others say white with a slight blue tint. What I was saying is that I dont think that the Phoenix lamps color is consistent. I think that some runs of the Phoenix bulbs are different color than other runs. I could be wrong but there just seems to be too much of a difference between different users color descriptions of these bulbs. I think that it is more than just peoples different perceptions of the color. There are many popular bulbs that seem to be described very similarly by different people in terms of color. The Phoenix is often described very differently by different users. I dont think that they are consistently the same color.

If one is going to run DE lamps with electronic ballasts to save energy, they may as well just go to single ended lamps. Thats my opinion anyway. There are many DE lamps that have a signifigant higher output on the Magentic HQI ballasts versus an electronic. Almost every DE lamp has higher par on magentic HQI, it's just the degree of increase that differs depending on the particular bulb. You may save some money running them on electronic but you arent getting the most out of the lamp. Electronics run most SE lamps fine, but on DE's you get more par for the extra energy used by Magnetic HQI ballasts.
  #54  
Old 01/11/2008, 01:12 AM
Ricimer Ricimer is offline
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I also use Icecaps electronic ballasts for my DE bulbs (am going to switch to HQI magnetic ballast when I move and upgrade to 220gal...) and to the eye the light output of the G-mann 14.5k is much higher than the Phoenix. I seems much more intense. I liked the Phoenix too, but the difference in intensity is obvious. I know it's not reflected by the values reported by dkle, but that's just how it looks. Same impression when my girlfriend came back from work and saw the new bulbs (G-mann), she was astonished by the increased intensity compared to the Phoenix.
  #55  
Old 01/11/2008, 04:34 PM
DarG DarG is offline
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Well if im not mistaken the human eye is not as keen at seeing the blue lighting. The Giesemann is a whiter bulb so even though it may be the same or lower par than the Phoenix on Icecap ballast, it makes sense that it would be perceived as brighter than the bluer Phoenix bulb. Again, assuming that I remember correctly regarding us not being as sensitive to the blue spectrum.
  #56  
Old 01/11/2008, 06:38 PM
Ricimer Ricimer is offline
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Yes, I think you're right about this.
  #57  
Old 01/11/2008, 09:31 PM
jefft321 jefft321 is offline
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Would you recommend the Gmann 13K, or Iwasaki 14K.
for a 2 x 250 watt HQI MH. I was also thinking of the XM 10K. Which has the highest par and best lookon an HQI ballast. I don't want yellow, or too Blue. White with a little blue would be ok. I have 4 x 54 watt T5's to suppliment Actinic.
  #58  
Old 01/11/2008, 10:03 PM
wildjoe wildjoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarG
The giesemann coral 13K (which is actually the 14.5) has a ppfd of 126 on the magnetic HQI ballast. Your are getting the 88 on an electronic ballast. The M80 ballast is the ballast that the bulb is spec'd to run on. 126 ppfd is the true output and just one very good example why DE lamps should be run on their spec, HQI magnetic ballasts.

BTW, I ran Phoenix 250 watt lamps for a little while. They were very very blue on both the magnetic and electronic ballasts. Far, far bluer than the Iwasaki 14000K which is actually a very crisp white bulb and an excellent choice for anyone wanting a 250 watt DE with good par, absolutely no yellow and just a slight hint of blue.

I know I have said this before in another thread but there are just too many different descriptions of the Phoenix bulbs in terms of color that I think it goes beyond individual perceptions. I think that some runs of the Phoenix bulbs are actually bluer than others. Either that or there are far more people who are color blind to blue than would seem possible. The Phoenix bulbs I had could have been branded TY-D-Bowl and it would have been a perfect name
now I'm starting to get completely confused. You refer to the coral 13k as actually being the 14.5k and the Marinedepot website lists the Megachrome as the 14.5k. I am thinking about going with the Giesemann 14.5k instead of the phoenix because I'm not looking for that blue I have been seeing on the tank shots posted. I'll be going with a 150w DE hqi with an electronic ballast so what would be the difference between the coral and the megachrome?
  #59  
Old 01/11/2008, 11:16 PM
DarG DarG is offline
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The 13K coral on sanjays site is actually the 14.5K Megachrome ... from what I have been told anyway. This is for the 250 watt DE lamps. I have no idea about the 150 watt or SE versions.
  #60  
Old 01/12/2008, 12:09 AM
Tylt33 Tylt33 is offline
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So for those of you that have the Giesemann 14.5k Coral Megachrome, what ballast are you running these with? I'm trying to decide if the Blue Wave 7 or the PFO 250 HQI is the way to go (both are M80 I believE). Either way I'd be using a Dual ballast (the ones that are set up to run two HQI Bulbs). Are there better ballasts out there for these bulbs?
  #61  
Old 01/12/2008, 04:10 AM
Tylt33 Tylt33 is offline
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And where did you find the Giesemann bulbs online??? I've looked everywhere!
 

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