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  #1  
Old 12/31/2007, 05:36 AM
cy88 cy88 is offline
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curing live rocks

Hi all,

I am setting up a new 75G, which is a huge upgrade from my 20G. There will also need to have an increase in the amount of LR from my 20G which has around 15lbs in it.

My question is, do I have to buy cured rocks? Can I "seed" it by putting in some of the old rocks (let's say, 10lbs of it), and add the rest as uncured rock?

Reason I am asking is that I want to save some cost on buying cured rocks vs non-cured. I believe at my LFS they are $4 vs $6 difference, and that is a $120 difference for 60lbs extra!

Thanks all,
Chris
  #2  
Old 12/31/2007, 05:55 AM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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im setting up a new 30g system, and i just ordered 25lbs of Marco rock. its very nice base rock that is just dead "live rock." you can seed it with live rock and once it becomes covered in coralline and other life it looks the best IMO. there are some people around here that use marco rock exclusively in their tanks. just do a search for "marco rock" and you should find some. it is cheap too.

personally, i would get some marco rock and cook it for a while in a large trashcan or tote, and seed it with your live rock when you transfer it over to your 75g. it would look boss.


HTH


-kyle
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  #3  
Old 12/31/2007, 06:22 AM
cloak cloak is offline
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^

Last edited by cloak; 12/31/2007 at 06:31 AM.
  #4  
Old 12/31/2007, 06:25 AM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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i got bored

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/se...der=descending
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  #5  
Old 12/31/2007, 06:37 AM
cy88 cy88 is offline
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Kyle,

Wow. Very nice!

I think this is what i am looking for: http://www.marcorocks.com/index.asp?...PROD&ProdID=40

I read it in one of the thread that 50lb of those dry rocks are more like double the quantity when compare to wet LR. Is that true? In that case, a box of 50lbs would do me alright?

How well would the marco rocks perform in terms of filtration?

Thanks again Kyle!
  #6  
Old 12/31/2007, 07:35 AM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by cy88
Kyle,

Wow. Very nice!

I think this is what i am looking for: http://www.marcorocks.com/index.asp?...PROD&ProdID=40

I read it in one of the thread that 50lb of those dry rocks are more like double the quantity when compare to wet LR. Is that true? In that case, a box of 50lbs would do me alright?

How well would the marco rocks perform in terms of filtration?

Thanks again Kyle!

from what ive read/seen marco rock is about half the weight of wet "live rock." therefore 50lbs of marco rock should look like about 100lbs of wet live rock. that being said, 50lbs should be a good place to start for you. some of the weight will also turn into rubble from shipping that you can use for a fuge...if you have one. im setting up my 30g with 25lbs of marco rock which should arrive this week, hopefully.

in terms of filtration, the marco rock is dry DEAD live rock, so it will need to be cured first, and seeded with some amount of live rock to colonize it with bacteria before you add it to your tank. or you can cure it in your tank for a new setup. heres what ill be doing with mine if it helps:

-soak rock in 20g trashcan with 1 part muriatic acid, 10 part RO/DI solution with powerhead on for 24hrs.
-rinse rock in RO/DI water
-soak rock in RO/DI water for 24 hours in trashcan with powerhead
-rinse rock in RO/DI water
-add ~10lbs cured live rock from Premium Aquatics and cook in 20g trashcan with fresh saltwater, heater, powerhead and no light for 4-6 weeks until its fully cured and ready for transport in my tank.


HTH
  #7  
Old 12/31/2007, 07:42 AM
cy88 cy88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by siwelk
from what ive read/seen marco rock is about half the weight of wet "live rock." therefore 50lbs of marco rock should look like about 100lbs of wet live rock. that being said, 50lbs should be a good place to start for you. some of the weight will also turn into rubble from shipping that you can use for a fuge...if you have one. im setting up my 30g with 25lbs of marco rock which should arrive this week, hopefully.

in terms of filtration, the marco rock is dry DEAD live rock, so it will need to be cured first, and seeded with some amount of live rock to colonize it with bacteria before you add it to your tank. or you can cure it in your tank for a new setup. heres what ill be doing with mine if it helps:

-soak rock in 20g trashcan with 1 part muriatic acid, 10 part RO/DI solution with powerhead on for 24hrs.
-rinse rock in RO/DI water
-soak rock in RO/DI water for 24 hours in trashcan with powerhead
-rinse rock in RO/DI water
-add ~10lbs cured live rock from Premium Aquatics and cook in 20g trashcan with fresh saltwater, heater, powerhead and no light for 4-6 weeks until its fully cured and ready for transport in my tank.


HTH
Thanks.

How important is it to cure the rocks in RO/DI water? I don't have a RO/DI unit for now, and will be getting my RO/DI water for my main tank for a local store but it'll probably be a huge hassle to get the water from the store as well to cure the rocks.
  #8  
Old 12/31/2007, 07:52 AM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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i would say that RO/DI water is very important, but not necessary i suppose. i figure it to be along the same lines as oil or gas for my car. best to go with the mfgs recommended oil/fuel, and in this case the mfg recommends RO/DI. the whole point of curing rock is to remove all the unwanted die off and junk from it and then colonize it with beneficial bacteria. by using tap water to do this you risk adding heavy metals, chlorine and the such. which really should be avoided if you can. i realize that when youre working with larger volumes of water its harder to acquire RO/DI water if you dont have a unit already. i just buy it from my LFS for .50 cents a gallon, but i only have 30g and they give it to me in five 6gal jugs so its not all that bad.

i guess if you have to use tap id look into using some kind of water conditioner first, at least a dechlorinator. and maybe find a way to test the TDS of your tap to see what it is, it may even be pretty low to start. im sure you wouldnt be the first to cure rock in tap, but personally i dont let anything other than R0/DI and occasionally distilled come into contact with my tank.
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  #9  
Old 12/31/2007, 07:56 AM
cy88 cy88 is offline
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I think I saw one of the threads mentioned about curing the Marco rocks with a few LR seed in the actual tank. Would that be a work around instead of "cooking" it?

Thanks!
  #10  
Old 12/31/2007, 08:06 AM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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sure, you can do this when youre setting up a new tank. its basically the same as cooking it in a trashcan or container. its just easier working with the smaller water volumes of a trashcan and the such, when compared to filling and changing out water from a 75g tank. cooking and curing is really all the same.

for me, im cooking in a trashcan for the following reasons.

-easier to manipulate water volume for changes, etc.
-plumbing isnt complete on my tank
-easier to keep good flow and heat in a smaller container
-i can cook outside of my home so it doesnt stink to high heaven
-its easier to keep out light in a closed-top container
-id just rather keep the rock out of my tank until its fully cured and ready to do its job.
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  #11  
Old 12/31/2007, 08:10 AM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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also, if you cooked your rock in a BRUTE trashcan or something, maybe you could take it to a LFS and get it filled with RO/DI water and just transport it back to your house. then you could at least be using RO/DI water for the process. and you would only need to buy maybe 20 some gallons or so. depens on your location and everything, but its just a thought. when i fill my tank up for the first time im going to have my LFS fill up a 32g trashcan and just bring it home to use to fill up my tank. i live only a couple miles from my LFS though.
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  #12  
Old 12/31/2007, 08:21 AM
Jocephus Jocephus is offline
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Generally speaking, people cure their rock in a seperate container when the tank is already established (adding new rock to existing tank). If your are starting out, place the rock in the tank to cure. Just don't add anything living until it stabilizes. Secondly, any rock you get will likely have some organic matter contained in/on it. Just because marco rocks are dry doesn't mean they won't give you the same cycle. That said, if you use dry rock, make sure to add some live rock to it to seed the rest. It will take quite a while for the marco rock to seed and function as if it were live. So you end up with a somewhat reduced filtering capacity for the first year or so. Personally, I think it is a great idea, as long as you are patient enough that you won't push a heavy bioload into the tank before it is ready.

PS.. Cooking usually involves trying to eliminate something bad from the rock, for instance cyano, or hair algae (done with no light). Curing is the natural process of the nitrifying bacteria reproducing in sufficient numbers to deal with the die off due to shipping of the rock.
  #13  
Old 12/31/2007, 08:40 AM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jocephus
Generally speaking, people cure their rock in a seperate container when the tank is already established (adding new rock to existing tank). If your are starting out, place the rock in the tank to cure. Just don't add anything living until it stabilizes. Secondly, any rock you get will likely have some organic matter contained in/on it. Just because marco rocks are dry doesn't mean they won't give you the same cycle. That said, if you use dry rock, make sure to add some live rock to it to seed the rest. It will take quite a while for the marco rock to seed and function as if it were live. So you end up with a somewhat reduced filtering capacity for the first year or so. Personally, I think it is a great idea, as long as you are patient enough that you won't push a heavy bioload into the tank before it is ready.

PS.. Cooking usually involves trying to eliminate something bad from the rock, for instance cyano, or hair algae (done with no light). Curing is the natural process of the nitrifying bacteria reproducing in sufficient numbers to deal with the die off due to shipping of the rock.

ive always used cooking/curing interchangably.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...king+live+rock

live rock vs. seeded dead rock

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...ck++live++seed
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  #14  
Old 12/31/2007, 11:31 AM
Speedway_06 Speedway_06 is offline
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jocephus
That said, if you use dry rock, make sure to add some live rock to it to seed the rest. It will take quite a while for the marco rock to seed and function as if it were live. So you end up with a somewhat reduced filtering capacity for the first year or so. Personally, I think it is a great idea, as long as you are patient enough that you won't push a heavy bioload into the tank before it is ready.


My question is How Long does it take generally to seed dry "live" rock? How much live rock would you use to seed around 50 lbs of this macro rock?
  #15  
Old 12/31/2007, 12:30 PM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by siwelk
ive always used cooking/curing interchangably.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...king+live+rock

live rock vs. seeded dead rock

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/in...ck++live++seed
sorry, the link under live rock vs. seeded dead rock should be

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...&hl=dead++rock
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  #16  
Old 12/31/2007, 12:37 PM
cwschoon cwschoon is offline
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I think that for curing, tap water is fine, just put in some Prime or the like. I am seeding some dead rock in a tank w. some live now, using tap.
  #17  
Old 12/31/2007, 12:39 PM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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ok for some reason every time i try to use a link to a really good thread over on nano-reef dot com about seeding live rock, it replaces the link with a link to reefcentral instead. i dont know why this is.

the link is:

http://www.nano-

reef.com/forums/

index.php?showtopic=

112776&hl=dead++rock


sorry, i had to break the link up because it keeps changing it to an RC link instead. if you copy and past that link together youll get a really good thread on live vs. seeded rock.
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  #18  
Old 12/31/2007, 12:43 PM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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ooook i see whats going on. can anybody tell me why when i try to type nano-reef dot com, its its .com form that RC automatically changes it to read reefcentral instead?? this seems highly inconvenient when trying to post a link to a thread over there. am i missing something here?? is this like a pepsi vs. coke thing?
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  #19  
Old 12/31/2007, 12:47 PM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Speedway_06
Quote:
Originally posted by Jocephus
That said, if you use dry rock, make sure to add some live rock to it to seed the rest. It will take quite a while for the marco rock to seed and function as if it were live. So you end up with a somewhat reduced filtering capacity for the first year or so. Personally, I think it is a great idea, as long as you are patient enough that you won't push a heavy bioload into the tank before it is ready.


My question is How Long does it take generally to seed dry "live" rock? How much live rock would you use to seed around 50 lbs of this macro rock?
i dont think anyone can really tell exactly how long it takes for dead rock to become fully seeded. it is fine to use after it cures, which can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks or more. it may not be filled with as much anaerobic bacteria on the inside as its live rock counterpart, but it should continually colonize as you will have introduced sources for this to occur.


i dont think it takes a whole lot of live rock for seeding purposes. ive seen a few ratios mentioned before...20%, 25%, 50%. ill be seeding 25lbs of marco rock with roughly 10lbs or so of fully cured hand-picked Kaelini rock from Premium Aquatics. once its all cured an in my tank, ill be adding livestock very slowly to give my seeded rock time to "catch up" with the new bio-load.
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  #20  
Old 12/31/2007, 12:53 PM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by cwschoon
I think that for curing, tap water is fine, just put in some Prime or the like. I am seeding some dead rock in a tank w. some live now, using tap.

depends on what youre definition of fine is. and also how pure your tapwater really is. for me, fine = 0 TDS, for others fine may equal 50 TDS or even 150. tap water is also a good place to introduce chlorine and other things, using a water conditioner may work out fine. but instead of treating tap water and hoping all is well, why dont we just use RO/DI from the start. at least that way we know that the only thing in the water is nothing
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  #21  
Old 12/31/2007, 01:34 PM
Jocephus Jocephus is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by siwelk
i dont think anyone can really tell exactly how long it takes for dead rock to become fully seeded. it is fine to use after it cures, which can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks or more. it may not be filled with as much anaerobic bacteria on the inside as its live rock counterpart, but it should continually colonize as you will have introduced sources for this to occur.


i dont think it takes a whole lot of live rock for seeding purposes. ive seen a few ratios mentioned before...20%, 25%, 50%. ill be seeding 25lbs of marco rock with roughly 10lbs or so of fully cured hand-picked Kaelini rock from Premium Aquatics. once its all cured an in my tank, ill be adding livestock very slowly to give my seeded rock time to "catch up" with the new bio-load.
Exactly what I was getting at. As long as you don't have misconceptions about the rock acting as a biological filter before being seeded, dry rock is great. The rock itself, does nothing but provide surface area. It is not until the bacteria colonize these areas that the rock becomes an effective filter media, and it may take months to fully mature.
  #22  
Old 12/31/2007, 02:40 PM
Racing1 Racing1 is offline
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The marco rock is awesome.I just purchased 50bs for my 75 gallon and the pieces were just what I asked for--- LARGE --- With very nice shapes... Here are a couple pics









And in the Tank





  #23  
Old 12/31/2007, 03:20 PM
cy88 cy88 is offline
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Racing1, that big piece that looks like a clam is amazing
  #24  
Old 01/12/2008, 01:26 AM
cy88 cy88 is offline
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Just an update - Been exchanging emails with marc for the marco rocks, and he's very slow and inefficient in replying emails that I really don't think he's interested in selling the rocks to me.

Ah well, i guess I'll need to hunt for some LR from my LFS... I hate bad customer service!
  #25  
Old 01/12/2008, 03:21 AM
siwelk siwelk is offline
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sorry for your experience. when i emailed marc he called me back within maybe 10 minutes and we discussed the kind of pieces i was looking for. i had a tracking number within a couple days and my rock in a week. ive heard one or two other people say that they have problems communicating with him. thats too bad. i got my rock last week and it was amazing.
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