is acan rare and expensive?

wakeupdrowzy · #1 03/05/2006, 03:56 AM

im not really familiar with acan, is acan expensive because i saw some purple one selling for 25 buck and about 3-4 inches big, is this a good deal?????

i alway see acan sellin for alot of money, but never paid any attention to them, are there cheap acan and expensive acan?

gobind · #2 03/05/2006, 07:09 AM

THATS A VERY GOOD DEAL BUY IT WHILE ITS STILL HOT. IVE GOT A FEW SPECIMENS. ITS A GREAT CORAL TO HAVE.....
IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHO IS SELLING IT THAT EFFECTS THE PRICE....

cmondo · #3 03/05/2006, 01:41 PM

The type and color of the acan both matter in the price, whether it is a lordhowensis (sp?) or echinata(sp?). The echinata's are usually a little cheaper.

wakeupdrowzy · #4 03/05/2006, 04:06 PM

how do i tell if it's echinata or lordhowensis?

David Grigor · #5 03/06/2006, 01:55 PM

Hard to know without a picture. If you like the coral and the color, it is most likely worth the $25. Doesn't sound too unreasonable.

I personally don't get hung up in the rare or expensive. Buy it because you like it and you never go wrong. If it ends up being worth more than that is just a bonus.....

wpar · #6 03/06/2006, 02:50 PM

Acanthastreas are NOT rare. You will typically find them to be expensive because they are somewhat the hot coral of the day. They are pretty hardy and easy to take care of. With feeding, they will grow pretty dramatically. Do a Goggle search and you will find loads of info. Acan lords and echinatas are the ones most commonly seen in the trade. They are distinguished by the size of the opening around the mouth.

As mentioned above, if you like the one at your LFS, buy it. $25 is pretty cheap for any coral that you like.

Bill

XeniaMania · #7 03/06/2006, 02:54 PM

They were really expensive when they first came out, but since alot of people are fragging now, it drops the price because supply is meeting or exceeding demand. That's how it is in any market, if there's high demand, then the price goes up.

stevedola · #8 03/06/2006, 03:04 PM

right now acans arent expensive UNLESS you want the more colorful vibrant variety...kinda like everything else in this hobby. I can get a blah green acro for 35 - 40 bucks but if I want a LE piece im going to have to hand over the casheeesh. I see gray and marroon acan lords for couple bucks a polyp but I dont buy them because of their name. If you can find the nicer colored acans then its expensive and rare however with aquaculturing being what it is in this hobby they are becoming more available to us.

wpar · #9 03/06/2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XeniaMania
They were really expensive when they first came out, but since alot of people are fragging now, it drops the price because supply is meeting or exceeding demand. That's how it is in any market, if there's high demand, then the price goes up.

That would work if this were a true supply and demand situation. As I previously stated, acans are actually pretty common. Let's put a name on an acan, call it rare and artificially drive up the price. Other dealers take note and then follow along. I'm convinced that the price drops of acans are more about the people that move from coral of the day to the next coral of the day now moving on to acroporas than an increase in frags.

Bill

RandyO · #10 03/06/2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wpar
That would work if this were a true supply and demand situation. As I previously stated, acans are actually pretty common. Let's put a name on an acan, call it rare and artificially drive up the price. Other dealers take note and then follow along. I'm convinced that the price drops of acans are more about the people that move from coral of the day to the next coral of the day now moving on to acroporas than an increase in frags.

Bill

When people talk about rare, they typically refer to the trade and not the wild. Location also affects how common a coral is. Duncanopsammia is found in most Aussie tanks, but very hard to find here in the US. I'd call this coral rare, but an Aussie might call it common.

A few years ago Acanthastrea lordhowensis type corals were hard to come by here in the US. I'd say at that time they were rare. They are much more common now. It took a little while for Importers and Collectors to get on the ball.

Attaching a name to a color morph of a certain species is more of a marketing ploy. But that's not what happened with Acanthastrea, IMO.

wpar · #11 03/06/2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RandyO
When people talk about rare, they typically refer to the trade and not the wild. Location also affects how common a coral is. Duncanopsammia is found in most Aussie tanks, but very hard to find here in the US. I'd call this coral rare, but an Aussie might call it common.

Careful Randy, you're going to start a fad for Duncanopsammias.

This issue has been debated for many months on this forum. Some people, myself included, believe that the acan market has been seriously manipulated. Others, like Randy, believe that acan prices have reflected true supply and demand. I am certain that we are not going to settle this today. Buy any coral that you want, including ones that go for four figures as acans recently have. But please, please regard any labels such as 'rare' right up there with 'new and improved' as marketing ploys.

Bill

XeniaMania · #12 03/06/2006, 06:28 PM

Everything can be labelled as rare. Even this one Ebay seller was labelling Daisy Polyps as rare xenia/anthelia. When I dropped a message to say that it's common, the seller got all defensive. But I guess what's truly rare is all in your mind. If you want some coral bad enough, and it's been hard for you to find, then that would be deemed rare in your eyes. I'm not into SPSs so I can't pull out any good examples, but for softies, the Blue Cespitularia is considered rare because a lot of ppl want it, but the supply is fairly low, so anyone who wants one will pay the price for one.

stevedola · #13 03/06/2006, 07:59 PM

I personally tend to agree with randy that the acan market was predominately high because of lack of import and the HUGE demand for the coral after 'the thread' was started. I dont think that hobbiest or distributers could have driven price that high without a lack of supply---atleast not for that long.

wakeupdrowzy · #14 03/06/2006, 11:29 PM

hmm ,very interesting, this is like coral economic 101, well i bought that piece of acan today, i just wanted to try it out and the price is pretty good, i have never had acan before, this be the first.

wpar · #15 03/07/2006, 01:15 PM

Congratulations on your purchase!! As I mentioned previously, they are quite hardy and will grow quickly with feeding. I'm certain that you'll be happy with it.

Bill

duec22 · #16 03/07/2006, 05:34 PM

I second that they can grow like weeks. My friend found a good deal on a five head frags at the end of January and I held it in my tank untill his was done cycling. In the month and a half that it was in my tank, feeding it three times a week, it over doubled in size and had 11 heads on it when I brought it over to his tank.

worldwidereef · #17 03/08/2006, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cmondo
The type and color of the acan both matter in the price, whether it is a lordhowensis (sp?) or echinata(sp?). The echinata's are usually a little cheaper.

How can you tell the difference between the two? Any pics would help.

Chypriss · #18 03/08/2006, 12:24 PM

Acanthastra Echinata

Lordhowensis are red, white and blue. Don't have a pic of mine, need to get my camera back from my friend.

marsh · #19 03/16/2006, 11:54 AM

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ebac/index.php

Acans are not rare nor are their color morphs acording to Borneman and Calfo. Sounds like pure marketing hype.

stevedola · #20 03/16/2006, 05:45 PM

in the wild they are common (depending on the location). As time has elapsed, the supply in our hobby has increased. Its still difficult to find the odd color morphs.

ps-feel free to challenge the experts and their opinions...dont accept solely on their reputation.

wpar · #21 03/16/2006, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stevedola

ps-feel free to challenge the experts and their opinions...dont accept solely on their reputation.

Yes, consult as many sources and 'experts' as you can. Do not blindly accept the word of any person. With that said, it must also be stated that all views/opinions are NOT created equal.

Do Calfo and Borneman have a monetary axe to grind on this issue? Do their educational backgrounds and years of involvement with many aspects of the hobby/business provide them with a perspective that few hobbyist can achieve?

Do the people who call the price of acans a supply and demand issue have any particular economics expertise/training? Do some of these people have a vested interest in the acan market? Where are their references/sources?

Answer all of these questions and come to your own conclusions. Never blindly take someone's view as fact, but always consider the source.

Stepping off my soapbox-
Bill

marillion · #22 03/16/2006, 10:52 PM

I think it's quite simple...it's still supply and demand.

Lords may be everywhere now, but when you look at the fact that EVERYONE has this :

and this :

...and very little people have this :

or this :

...then you can tell which ones are $4/polyp and which ones are $400/polyp.

It's still supply and demand, though the total amount of "lordhowensis" out there has increased exponentially. The best looking examples of any given coral will always command a higher price.

Peace,

Chip

stevedola · #23 03/17/2006, 08:56 AM

thats what i was saying chip before-just like any other coral the rarer the coloration the more expensive and difficult it is to find.

marillion · #24 03/17/2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stevedola
thats what i was saying chip before-just like any other coral the rarer the coloration the more expensive and difficult it is to find.

Yup, exactly. I just don't like people saying, "Oh well, it's a lord and they're everywhere now so anything over $4/polyp is a ripoff."

Peace,

Chip

RandyO · #25 03/17/2006, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wpar
Yes, consult as many sources and 'experts' as you can. Do not blindly accept the word of any person. With that said, it must also be stated that all views/opinions are NOT created equal.

Do Calfo and Borneman have a monetary axe to grind on this issue? Do their educational backgrounds and years of involvement with many aspects of the hobby/business provide them with a perspective that few hobbyist can achieve?

Do the people who call the price of acans a supply and demand issue have any particular economics expertise/training? Do some of these people have a vested interest in the acan market? Where are their references/sources?

Answer all of these questions and come to your own conclusions. Never blindly take someone's view as fact, but always consider the source.

Stepping off my soapbox-
Bill

I don't think you need to have economics expertise or training to understand "Supply and Demand". It's quit simple. A lot of people want a product that is hard to find. High price.
A lot of product and only a few people looking to buy it, low price.

I think that the people that were selling Acans had a better understanding of this law because they had 100 people fighting for the same frag. It makes it real easy to see. Very little product with large demand.

Of course things have changed now and lords can be had by ordering them through wholesalers. Now it's just the really crazy color morphs that are fetching top dollar since there are not that many of those morphs around.

In my opinion, it was a simple matter of only a few people in the US had them, and fewer people were actually fragging and selling them. That's what created a market for them.

Or, you can believe that a ring of collectors that owned or sold Acan lords conspired together somehow to create a false market, according to that article linked above.

What's more believable? Not a lot of product, with a large amount of people wanting it.
Or, a conspiracy to control all incoming Acans, with only a select few individuals getting them, and then setting the prices way high, and forcing the general public to pay them by showing off how beautiful they are. That would mean the LA wholesalers and transhippers must have been in on it too since the general public could not get them though them. The conspiracy must even go to the Islands or origin.

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall while those masterminds got together to plan this elaborate conspiracy.

Or maybe I was there.