info on fraging LPS corals

[shane 1111]

this thread is to gather detailed info on fraging LPS corals.
I will post info written by different members in past threads.

[shane 1111]

originally posted by randyO
Acanthastrea lordhowensis grows by encrusting, from what I've experienced. When I cut 2 or 3 polyps off the mother, I glue them onto a new small rock. After a few weeks, the frag starts to encrust the new rock. As it spreads out on this rock it will send out baby polyps in this new growth. After about a month, the frag will have a small ring of baby polyps around the larger 3 polyps. At this time, the full polyps will start to get larger. Another month of encrusting, and those baby polyps start to get larger. The main 3 polyps now start to swell up very large. Also, you should start to see more baby polyps develop as the diameter of the coral increases. The more you feed each polyp, the faster they will grow. By 3 months, your well fed frag should have over a dozen full polyps, with small baby polyps around the perimeter. Eventually, the coral runs out of rock to encrust. Then it's starts to put it's growth energy into the size of the polyps. It will also start to deposit more of it's own skeleton. It will start to grow up, creating a mound look. After about 6-8 months, you end up with a tennis ball size colony.

As for echinata growth, I've noticed my colony healed up after I cut a frag out a couple months ago. I've also noticed a few new smaller polyps around that area. But not much in the way of growth on the rest of the colony. I don't think these grow even close to the pace lordhowensis grow. I do feed mine at night. The mouths are always open. It will also feed during the day when I feed the fish. The mouths will open shortly after adding food to the aquarim.
originally posted by randyO

[shane 1111]

originally posted by MarLooney


my fragging story
OK here's the whole piece before fragging...



closing up the polyps with my finger. thanks randy, for that tip.

[IMG] http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...ragging_03.JPG [/IMG]

making the first cut with the dremel. took me a while to figure out where i wanted the piece to be broken up. all that for not reason though, you'll see later. i was scared as hell taking the cutting wheel to it for the first time.


after a while you get used to it. here's me cutting away at it. one huge mistake i made was letting the dremel get too close. see the black part where the bit attaches to the dremel? that part got too close and messed up a polyp.


doing some clean up here. i used my target feeder to blow clean water over the piece so i could get a good look at what was going on. the dremel sprayed stuff all over the frag as well as my face. thanks again randy for telling me to use a pair of googles.


originally posted by MarLooney

[shane 1111]

....

[ctxmonitor]

Very nice pics of showing how to frag a acan..

[shane 1111]

originally posted by MarLooney


going back at it with the dremel again. sometimes it goes through like a hot knife through butter.


once i went as deep as i could i took a hammer and small screwdriver to it. this was a big mistake. some lines broke clean where i had planned to frag.... others were soooo off. it broke a lot more of my colony than i had wanted to. should've stuck to the dremel, or cut along the bottom better than i had.


by this time the water was getting pretty bad. i had a cup of clean water i used sometimes too. you can't tell there, but it's all broken up. the big crack in the front is the only one you can really see.


here i'm cutting the little bits of flesh that are left holding it together.


one frag left to cut off of this piece then that's all i'm going to be left with.

[shane 1111]

originally posted by MarLooney
at the top you can see the two pieces seperated.


like i said the hammer and screwdriver broke the colony in way too many places. here i am with some superglue trying to fix one of those mishaps. that'll be my remaining piece.


the last two pieces i needed to seperate came apart good. i used all dremel this time. it's much easier to work on small pieces than the whole colony. as you can see, the right piece has about 4 polyps. would that be our trade john?

[shane 1111]

originally posted by MarLooney
the last two came out real good. this piece should be going to Randy after it heals up.


cutting around john's piece. i wanted only the acan, not the rock too. i tried to cut it thinner but with such a small piece it didn't work. =T


i attached with epoxy so they'd have a hard surface to encrust over. i ran out of it so i'm going to have to buy more, but i had enough to ensure the piece stay on.


here are all three frags and the piece i'm keeping for myself. the third piece will either go to brahm or downset. it's up to brahm. he said he didn't wanna trade yet, and that's all good. as long as i keep some for myself, i can always trade with him later. selling a piece would be good too cause it'd pay for the shipping on the other three i'm shipping out to chris, randy, & john.
expect a few weeks to a month to let them heal first though. the only one i have ready to go is chris'... i just needa figure out how to ship it with a reasonable price.

[FastFish720]

Very nice information, maybe submit it to RK mag?

[shane 1111]

anyone else wanna comment on fraging techniques?
of acans, B. wellsi, Echino, Maze Brain (platygyra) and others.

please no branching LPS like Hammers, FrogSpawns, candy canes.

[Steven Pro]

How about Turbinaria, Catalaphyllia, and Fungia?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-0...ture/index.htm

[Steven Pro]

There are some more propagation articles here
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=605983

[bugsy714]

great idea shane, we should have a sticky with all the lps fragging techniques!

Frag your corals people, the reef has given enough to go around =)


I think if marlo would have tried a stiff putty knife instaed of the screwdriver he would have had better luck.

Check the coral propagation forum for more info, here's the best info I have seen:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ac_sp/feature/

[shane 1111]

reasons to frage your coral

originally posted by Anemone

One thing to keep in mind, when you trade a frag of a coral you own (any coral, not just acans), you give yourself the possibility of getting the coral back if you have a tank meltdown.

It's nice to hope it doesn't happen to you, but better still to have a bunch of your frags out there so that if it does happen, you can get any "prized" corals back...

[shane 1111]

bugsy714
i asked Anemone and he said maybe

[MiddletonMark]

Originally posted by shane 1111
please no branching LPS like Hammers, FrogSpawns, candy canes.

No offense, but where to cut the line?
Sure seems like there's too many similarities with the `ruled out' corals [or non-`LPS' whatever the heck that definition means].

Perhaps you should list a full list of what Genus you want - as I guess I don't understand the difference between fragging a Euphyllia and a Plerogyra as 90% of the technique is the same [if not more].

[shane 1111]

I have to admit. my hands were shaking at first.But now, I have no problem cutting up corals.

[shane 1111]

originally posted by MarLooney


i use this wheel (dremel #545) and it works great. now that you think of it. i think i do remember john telling me he used that one. when i first started fragging he was one of the guys that helped talk me through the process. without help from ppl like him and especially randy it would've been a long messy road of acan flesh until i was getting good frags. luckily with their help i got it down now.

yeah, i think the way i mount now is the best way to go. cutting thin just involves more risk to you and the coral and doesn't really hold any advantages that i can see.

[shane 1111]

Originally posted by MiddletonMark
No offense, but where to cut the line?
Sure seems like there's too many similarities with the `ruled out' corals [or non-`LPS' whatever the heck that definition means].

Perhaps you should list a full list of what Genus you want - as I guess I don't understand the difference between fragging a Euphyllia and a Plerogyra as 90% of the technique is the same [if not more].

no it is not. fraging Euphyllia is simply you don't have to cut thorough a lot of tissue. Plerogyra is thick. i have fraged both of them and Euphyllia is easier.
please this thread is not for debate. I would like to keep it on track.

[shane 1111]

hear is the list
Echinophyllia, Oxypora, Echinopora, favia, acanthastrea, micromussas, Blastomussa Wellsi, Tubastraea.

[shane 1111]

originally posted by randyO

One thing I've noticed is that wild colonies of Acanthastrea lordhowensis do not grow the same as captive ones. I haven't seen a large round ball come in from the wild. All the pic's I've seen, the colonies are fairly flat, maybe with some curves.
So, when I see a pic of a large round brain coral, doubt is already in my mind.
Another thing I've noticed is that wild A.lordhowensis are usually attached/encrusted to a small rock. Sometimes with pieces of marco algae, and other life.
This leads me to think that these corals use the rocks to encrust. They depend on them. When most of use glue a frag to a rock, we don't set it inside the rock(excluding you and Marlon) but we glue it to the top of the rock. I think this is what causes the large round brain look. The wild pieces look like they we set flush to the rock.
And even though these corals encrust, I know they also create their own skeleton. The mass of my colony is much larger now. But I think it's more work for the coral to keep depositing skeleton. The more surface area we provide for them to grow, the faster the growth. When my buddy started to chop all his up, I thought he was crazy. Now I see it was like throwing gasoline on the fire. And now he can't put it out.
originally posted by randyO


i am trying this now and i will up date you in the difference in growth.

[shane 1111]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-0...ture/index.htm
another good link

[shane 1111]

Propagating "Large-polyped" Stony Corals (LPS)
by Anthony Calfo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


One of the most important things I'd like to convey in this article is how very hardy most corals are with regard for propagation. The techniques shown here are aggressive, illustrative, and only but a few of the many possible ways to fragment stony corals for sale, trade or simply controlling overgrowth in successful displays. Keep in mind that the ocean is a very dynamic environment! And corals often suffer extremes of temperate, light, salinity and/or contact (water flow, predation,

"Propagating large polyped stony corals can be fun and easy. Pictured here, aquatic scientists at C-MAC (South Carolina): Jake (grinning like he stole it) and Chuck (grinning like it's Christmas)." photo by Anthony Calfo... more...
weather/storms, etc.) in coral seas. Yet even the most aggressive fragmentary techniques are quite tolerable by such corals that could otherwise be fragmented in the ocean by various natural forces. The real secret to successful coral propagation is not the style(s) of making divisions, but rather the husbandry and water quality that precedes and follows the act of propagation.

By comparison, the propagation of popular soft corals like Xenia (pulse coral) and Sarcophyton (leather coral) has been practiced for many years now. Similarly, many aquarists have no fear about fragmenting their so-called "small-polyped stony" (SPS) corals such as Acroporids and Pocilloporids. But for all of our success, producing hundreds of thousands of corals frags of the aforementioned groups through the years… a majority of aquarists are quite uncomfortable, if not wholly ignorant, of pruning or propagating the large(r) polyped stony corals (LPS).

Ambivalence with LPS corals is not without good reason! Even the hardiest species are generally much more sensitive to handling and damage. They categorically suffer higher rates of morbidity and mortality in all stages of custody and transit than other non-LPS cnidarians. The principal reason for this is very simple. For example, a grapefruit sized colony of corallimorphs ("mushroom false corals") or zoanthids ("button polyps"), might be comprised of 50, 75 or 100+ individual polyps. Damage to any one of the polyps has little bearing on the other polyps in the colony. But a grapefruit-sized LPS specimen such as Cynarina ("Doughnut coral") may be comprised of a single, large (huge actually) polyp. The reality of the matter is as simple as it seems, my friends. A 100-polyp zoanthid colony can easily afford to lose a single polyp, but many LPS corals have but few large polyps if not single-polyps, and little or none to spare! Appropriately, then, we must be extra careful to employ optimal husbandry and handling habits for LPS propagation candidates, before and after making divisions.

Remember to only conduct aggressive propagation techniques on established, healthy and well-conditioned specimens. I recommend a minimum of six months of undisturbed holding and regular feeding (weekly if not daily, minimum) for corals to be propagated. Propagation certainly can be conducted successfully in far less time, but the chance of infection or loss is at least somewhat greater in weaker or less established colonies. Do take the time to research and understand the needs of each coral you keep. Discover what they eat and how best to deliver it. Remember, "Form follows function!" If your coral has large polyps that principally come out at night when zooplankton abounds, don't be surprised that your coral naturally eats/prefers large zooplankton! The majority of LPS corals, in fact, require meaty fare in small, frequent feedings. Zooplankton substitutes are in order. Thawed frozen mysid shrimps, gammurus or eggs (fish or oyster in the aquarium trade) make good staples in the LPS diet. Minced meats of marine origin are fine too such as krill, shrimp or crabs… squid, fish flesh and more. You must experiment and be mindful of the size of the polyps you are feeding. Offerings 3-5 times weekly are a good starting point, but in very tiny portions. More is not necessarily better, and overfed corals will simply regurgitate the matter later and burden water quality over time if repeated.

[shane 1111]

Fragmentation of a Fungia sp.

As mentioned previously, one of the obstacles to fragmenting large polyped stony corals is the resulting unnatural looking fragments and their slow growth rates. Perhaps no group of corals suffers from this more than do the Fungiids. These corals can be propagated with good survival, no matter how oddly the fragments may appear afterward.

As in the other examples, this Fungia sp. (below) was moved into a pan of water that allowed for easy handling of the coral. The coral was then quite simply cut in half using a disc cutting attachment on a rotary tool. Admittedly, this turned out to be a poor choice as the remarkably hard, dense skeleton stubbornly resisted the tool. Future experiments will most certainly use more aggressive tools such as band saws or chisels!

In addition to cutting the coral, the authors deeply scored one fragment across its septa, and deeply scored the other parallel to its septa. This was done in an attempt to stimulate the formation of anthocauli, or daughter satellite sites where a seemingly dead and denuded parent begins to decalcify and issue buds from along the septa of its corallum. This occurrence is well documented in damaged Fungiids. We also hoped to discover which type of damage would more reliably stimulate anthocauli formation.

As in the previous examples, the fragmented coral was returned to the same spot in the aquarium from which it was taken, and the fouled water from the pan was discarded. Within a couple of weeks, the tissue at the margins of the cuts was well healed, and within a month, new tissue had completely covered the cut edges. Several months later, both pieces are still alive and appear healthy, but have not formed new mouths where the original one existed. In hindsight, the formation of new mouths would probably have been more likely if the cut had been made across the mouth as opposed to parallel to it. Even considering Fungia sp.'s normally slow growth rate, new growth in this coral has been disappointing. This coral's inability to feed is undoubtedly contributing to its slow growth.

In addition, all of the scoring healed well, but no anthocauli were produced. Take note that even after apparent "abuse," the worst thing that happened was that our efforts did not force the coral to produce daughter colonies. These were rather aggressive techniques and yet the coral survived. The key was how well it was cared for leading up to, and after, the propagation occurred. Again, we would not recommend this or any propagation technique on newly acquired animals.

Overall, despite the survival and apparent good health of the Fungia fragments, they probably remain poor fragmentation candidates. Only the very fastest growing specimens have any hope of becoming large enough and normal looking enough in a reasonable amount of time. The best methods for propagating these corals will probably revolve around finding a reliable method to stimulate anthocauli formation.

[RandyO]

Nice thread shane.

Just to clarify, in the second post of this thread you have a long winded response from me, I was telling someone what to expect from a frag I had sent them. My experince with the growth rate of other lords have varied. Some took off while others grew much slower.

I've also got these fragging photos

This frag was made using a dremel. The colony was out of the water for 5 minutes to drain before I started to cut.




All that area that was cut is skeleton deposited by the coral. The original rock was small and flat.

This pic is of the colony about 30 minutes after fragging.



and this is the frag the same night, but not sure how long it was in the tank before the pic.