Cold water macro tank blog

[norskfisk]

I have just started a blog on my 265 gallon cold water reef/macro algae tank here:

http://www.jonolavsakvarium.com/blog/

Not all that much yet, the tank is currently under construction.

I hope to keep a few of the 300 species of macros that are growing along the coastal line here close to me.
There will be a DSB in the tank as it is custom designed with a 15 cm deep area below the glass. So seagrass is not out of the question either. I know there is at least one species here.

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Sounds like it will be great Jon. I love temperate marine stuff too, I think I'll do a cold water tank once I get the funds...

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Any updates? Can't wait to see this tank!

[KUDA]

Very interesting. The tide pools where you live are amazing!!!

[mastou]

Pics pics pics

/Magnus

[norskfisk]

Don't worry there will be pics!
But things take time. The current status of the tank is that it is done "soon". I am getting anxious to get out and catch content for the tank, but it will be some weeks left before it is up and running. Work is taking most of my time and energy. I hope to get the painting finshed this weekend, and then it is just inserting the glass and wait for the silicone to cure.

Nice that you like the project. I hope it will inspire more people to look at native marine species!

[Dwarf Seahorses]

It's definitely inspirational, I already have had plans for a cold water tank for months now, just need to see somebody except Steve Weast pull it off first =)

[ClamIAm]

What temperature are you going to be keeping it at?

[norskfisk]

Hehe, we'll see if I pull it off. It's my first saltwater tank! Right now I'm in an illusional state thinking that saltwater is going to be easier than freshwater. Mainly because of skimming, the ultimate filtration method, and because saltwater naturally contains many of the nutrients that are lacking in FW. Also, there are many animals that eat thread algae and convert it into goo that can be skimmed out. Thread algae was the main problem in my FW native setups. Here is the tank after several rounds of pruning:



Hope it's not going to be like that in SW.

I am thinking about following the natural temperature curve here. I have a good link where I can see the temp at various depths throughout the year:
Daily sea temperature observations

I was thinking about keeping about the average at 1 m depth. Though it won't be practical to go down to 2C in february. Maybe 5C. Highest is in August with 18C. Maybe I'll kick it up to 20C a few days to simulate the high day temperature on sunny days.

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Why are you using a skimmer in a macro algae tank? It takes out what nutrients the macros thrive in =)

[norskfisk]

Yes, that's a tricky one...
You see my fast growing plants in the FW tank also needed nutrients. But the thread algae beat them to it. Or maybe there was just too much nutrients in the beginning and then the thread algae covered everything and the plants didn't get nutrients anymore. Or maybe the plants only took up nutrients through their roots and couldn't use those in the water. There are many ifs and maybes here. I'll just start out by going with my gut feeling. The natural habitat of the algae is relatively nutrient lacking in the summer months. So I'll go for a low nutrient approach, and then try adding if it's needed. After sever al years of FW exepriments I am simply a bit fed up with the "nutrient soup" tank, so I'll try something else this time. We'll see what happens ;-).

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Seems like you didn't have enough lighting in your FW tank. Mix that with lots of nutrients, poor substrate, and no c02 and you've got an algae explosion.

Am I right?

[norskfisk]

No, I had more than enough light, including MH lamps at one point. I also tried both with and without CO2. With CO2 the algae grew at a rate that was just insane. They literally filled the tank in a week. I didn't know wether to laugh or cry. Completely against my will I had created the optimal thread algae factory! The amount of biomass that got produced there was amazing. That was the major issue with my FW tank. So I want to avoid that path this time. Once the thread algae get hold they are hard to get rid of.

The substrate was probably very poor, yes. Nutrient lacking sand. That is one of the things that gives me more hope for a SW tank. The nice algae are better fit to compete with thread algae. Kelp for example can suck up great amounts of nitrate and store it in the tissue for a sunny day, literally. Other aquarists have reported kelp to be great nitrate filters. So I have good hope.

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Poor luck I guess =(

Hopefully this time will be a little less frustrating.

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Also, how do you plan on providing the right kind of flow for these tidepool macro algaes? From what I've heard they're tough to keep because they like random, hard, fast flow that a dump bucket provides, not the way a Tunze or Wave2K works flow.

[norskfisk]

They aren't tidepool algae, the ones on the tidepool pic were dead, washed ashore.
Still, as you say, they only grow well in high energy environments. The flow is an important, perhaps critical, issue. My only plan yet is to place 3 maxijet phs at each side of the tank and run them on a wave timer. I have a feeling that the narrow outlets on those pumps will create a sufficient turbulent blast on the algae. But I'm not sure, so maybe I'll have to invest in something more powerful. I'm not into the gallons/hour debate with pumps since it's all how you use the pumps, not the throughput, that counts.
Then, maybe the algae don't really need extremely heavy flow. I mean why do they grow best in high energy environments in the first place? Is it because they need the fast flowing water to function properly, or is it just because they get in contact with more water, getting more nutrients, in those places? If it's the latter then they don't need that heavy flow an aquarium.

[Dwarf Seahorses]

That would probably be a question for Samala.

[norskfisk]

Brushing some dust off this thread. The tank is now filled and has some macros in it. It has only been running one week so it is too early to say if the macros are growing or not:




Some mussels and sea squirts and probably Ulva lactuca :




I think this is Nori:

[mastou]

Nice pics, do you know what light requirements the Ulva has? and how do you keep the low temperature?

Oh year, and are you using a "normal aquarium" - if yes what about condensation of water on the outside (cool aquarium vs warm room) do you think it will be a problem?

/Magnus

[norskfisk]

No, I don't know the requirements of the Ulva or any other species. I'll just have to test out various algae and see how it works.

I use a Aqua medic Titan 1500 chiller. Rated 1/2 HP and consumes 375 Watts. It is a bit too weak. It won't enable me to keep fully realistic spring and perhaps winter temps. But now in summer and fall it will do OK.

My aquarium is custom built by me. A normal aquariums can be used, but one should insulate outside of one or more sides with styrofoam. I use regular 10mm glass, same as in similar regular glass aquariums. Condensation has not been a problem so far. Though it will probably be in winter and spring. In winter I will probably switch off lights and cover whole tank for awhile. After I started using the chiller I have almost 1000 Watts given off in the room during the daylight hours and it has become remarkably dryer. From 50% to 35% relative humidity.

Thick acrylic is reccommended, but not necessary for these tanks.

Check my blog and homepage for more info!

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Looking good!

[Plantbrain]

Yes, to keep many of the species you like, high flow rates are a must.
That blast the diatoms and other epiphytes off of them.

High enegy can reduce other noxious algae by about 90% or so I'd say.

You can go out and see that there's a lot more noxious algae in the lower energy sections.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[norskfisk]

Yes, I visited a high energy area 2 days ago at low tide. I could wade out and get laminaria digitata and another type of kelp. Both the algae and the rock was absolutely clean of hairy algae. In sheltered areas thick mats of green or brown hair algae often cover everything below low tide at this time of the year. They disappear later on though. In my tank I couldn't reproduce the movement of a high energy environment even with extremely powerful pumps. I would, however, end up stressing fish, anemones, soft corals sea squirts etc. So it is an ever lasting trade off this type of project! You just can't have everything. So I'll just test things out and see werr it goes. Right now I would really like to have the larger anemones so I give those a priority. I am hoping that it should be possible with a flow situation that allows macros to grow rapidly and at the same time is not to strong for most animals. We'll se if it works. Anyway growing kelp doesn't have many epiphytes, it defends itself with chemical. It's when it stops growing the epiphytes come.

Question to Tom and other experts:
I have now had kelp, mainly Laminaria digitata, for a week. The specimens are small and fresh and should, according to my limited experience, show some growth. I have many more now than in the picture above. But I see no growth from any kelp species. Could be that it is early, but I am getting a bit worried. Should they have started to grow by now? Do they need time to adapt? Too little flow, too little light, lacking nutrient? Could it be out of season for kelp? They normally start growing in winter and slack off in mid summer. There is measurable nitrate in the water and the pH is 7.9 and kH 12 degrees. Salinity is 30ppm, same as were I found them. Iron?

[Plantbrain]

Some plants need some time to acclimate to the new environment, however, my experience seems to suygest they should grow fast quickly if you provide a good happy home for them.

As you said about trade offs, every method and critter has them.
There is no one size fits all method.

I opted to have the trade off with high current.

But where I have the current is another Trade Off that allows me to bend the rules in some spots, or as I've suggested to some, add the current and plants to the Refugium.

In general, a healthy plant will always be a lot harder for epiphytes to colonize than a sickly plant/stressed plant.

I think it's very safe to say this.

I know all Kelps like cold, nutrient rich water, like we have here in CA and most of the West Coast all the way to the Terre Del Feugo and Alaska up north, the deep upwelling water is rich in CO2 as well.

We have to add a bit more NO3 than what is found in natural systems, we have trouble adding and maintaining 0.2ppm as hobbyists for example.

The source of N for Kelp and most cold water species tends to be NO3, not NH4, both can be used, but NH4 tends to be in warmer, more oligotrophic systems and is recycled rapidly and kept at very low levels.

NO3 is new Nitrogen coming in to the system.
So dosing KNO3 etc works pretty well.

Light also influences things and you need a stable temp as well.
Salinity should not be an issue, Fe, you can add it, maybe try Tropica master grow, it's better than Marine brand.

As you noted, most noxious algae are seasonal(true for both cold and warm water species).
So we can assume that they are induced by such changes as temp, light day length, flow etc.

Test and see and then go after the most likely candidates.
Ulva pops up here when thigs go bad, Entromorpha as well.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Any more updates?