id please - help!

[Benny Z]

can anyone id this macro algae?



it almost looks like little hydroids, but they are strung together on thin "vines". when the vines get long enough they break off from the water movement and end up clinging to another piece of rock, where they then spread like wildfire. this stuff came in on a zoa rock i got from a friend and has been spreading pretty quickly.

my rabbitfish and tang don't touch it, although they eat all other types of macro.

is there a natural predator for this stuff? i'd like to get rid of it before it consumes my tank.

thanks,
ben

[Benny Z]

here is a video of the stuff, showing that it's spreading all over the tank. you can also see how "stringy" it is.

75mb download

link

[graveyardworm]

Any chance of getting a good close up?

[Benny Z]

i don't have the best camera for macros, but here are some better closeups. i turned the pumps off so they would stand still.





a fish brushed up against this bunch and they closed up...



i know what you're thinking - they look a lot like hydroids. they're not like hydroids i've seen, though...the hydroids i've seen (have had before ) have single bases and aren't connected by a stringy stalk. these are a lot thinner than hdyroids, too. you can peel them off by the strands, but they grow back quickly.

[siren]

hydroids....I had a problem with them as well, but I think that my aptasia eating nudi's ate them all. We've been doing a study on weather or not these nudis will eat the hydroids, and they seem to be doing it. you might look into it.

[Benny Z]

yeah, i did quite a bit of research last night after posting this and concluded that they are indeed hydroids.

i ordered the "panacur" medicine and am going to treat the tank. unforunately it sounds like i'll lose most soft corals (not a big deal to me) and possibly my snails.

fun, fun, fun!

[graveyardworm]

I think I would explore other options before nuking the tank, maybe experiment a bit and try to find something that will graze on them. You could probably setup a small tank for this purpose so you dont have to introduce new livestock to your tank without knowing whether or not it will eat them. Maybe an LFS would let you bring some in to place in a tank of theirs to experiment with predators. The panacur sounds like there will be a pretty good chance that you will kill alot of stuff and start a new cycle which could kill more stuff. Sounds like a tank crash in the making.

[siren]

I agree. Mine are beginning to thin out, but only after the addition of aptasia eating nudis. Fox faces are supposed to eat them. I honestly think you will regret doin that treatment. And remember, when your softies die, they will release mucus that can kill most sps and lps. Just remove them with tweezers until you can find a method of removal.

[H20Sidhe]

Originally posted by siren
I agree. Mine are beginning to thin out, but only after the addition of aptasia eating nudis. Fox faces are supposed to eat them. I honestly think you will regret doin that treatment. And remember, when your softies die, they will release mucus that can kill most sps and lps. Just remove them with tweezers until you can find a method of removal.

Do the "aiptasia eating nudis" (I presume you are referring to Berghia) eat all/most hydroids? I've been plucking out the hydroids in my tank, but I've got some I can't reach. Which type of hydroid do you have that are being thinned?

[siren]

Mine were just like the one's pictured. But like I said before, I THINK that it's the berghia that are doing the deed. We've been testing it at the OK Aquarium, and they seem to be vanishing, but we haven't actually seen one of the nudis on them. The safe bet would be to try them, and if it doesn't work, at least you got rid of your aptasia.

[aztbs]

Foxfaces won't touch them. I had them growing like wildfire and nothing worked. I tried juicing them, toothbrushing them, epoxying over them. Eventually, I pulled the infected rock out and threw it in the yard.

This hydroid is called Myrionema. I have heard there may be a nudibranch that will eat them, but I didn't want to risk it or try to track them down. Get rid of them asap before they spread further.

[Benny Z]

i'm going to go ahead with the panacur treatment. a buddy has agreed to babysit my snails and ricordias for a while. that leaves only a few small kenya trees and a handful of small mushrooms in the tank, and some zoos. everything else is sps. i don't anticipate an ammonia spike, but i will watch for one.

i appreciate the advice not to do this, but short of tearing the tank completely apart and starting from scratch i don't see how it's going to be possible to get rid of them. there are little strands of it everywhere.

[Samala]

Are you absolutely sure you want to do that????

Panacur may 'cling' to live sand and live rock for a prolonged period of time. Your friend may have to adopt all those invertebrates, not just babysit them! I dont know how long panacur may linger in the system, but I would suspect that most people would advise you to totally break down the tank and toss the rockwork and sand if you applied this chemical to the system.

I have a hard time imagining SPS being immune to the effects of this treatment. Then again, I dont know a lot about SPS.

I'm sure we all seem very paranoid, but it seems like a big risk. I would do a google search for panacur, you will probably turn up a lot of hits for seahorse related information. The seahorse keepers use it primarily for hydroids in rearing tanks that plague larval culture for SH.

Good luck --

>Sarah

[graveyardworm]

If you do go ahead and do it make sure to document everything as much as possible, and atleast post back to this thread. Let us know how it goes regardless of outcome. Could be some valuable info.

[Benny Z]

argh! i keep finding conflicting info on this stuff!

from seahorse.com's faq

:/

[Benny Z]

well, i decided to take the plunge.

last night i moved all of my snails and sps to the sump, turned off the return pump, and dosed the first dosage of panacur in the display.



i left a few duplicate pieces of sps in the display to see what happens to them. will definately report back!

[graveyardworm]

Looks like a nice collection of corals. Good luck with the treatment. How do you get the Panacur out of the display water before introducing the corals back, water changes? How do you know if it has become bound to the substrate? I'm also assuming you'll be running huge amounts of Carbon after the treatment.

[Benny Z]

i plan to do an 80% water change out of the display on monday or tuesday and, like you said, run a ton of carbon for a couple of days. i don't have any substrate...

i left the few pieces of sps in the tank to be an indicator for me. if they survive and show no stress then i'll have no worries putting everything back in. if they do...well...that's another story...

[Benny Z]

well, so far so good.

here's the same patch from this pic above:





they are obviously very ticked off and dying. note the zoos next to them are fine.

here's another pic, showing the mushrooms and kenya tree are surviving:



and one more, showing a crest of the dying buggers:



the sps pieces and a remaining ricordia that i missed taking out also look fine. my leather frag has no polyp extension and looks pretty ticked off. i may lose that. fish, crabs, and cleaner shrimp are fine. no ammonia spike.

i just dosed the second treatment. will post back tomorrow.

[graveyardworm]

Sounds pretty good so far.

[Benny Z]

i'd say the hydroids are definately dead. their bodies remain, but i don't think there's any life left in them. unfortunately, the same is true for my leather. i also noticed that the kenya trees look really ticked off today. i may lose them. mushrooms, ricoridia, sps, and zoos all look fine. i dosed the final treatment about 2.5 hours ago. i've got a magnum 350 with fresh kent reef carbon loaded up and waiting to go tomorrow. i may have only about 70 gallons of water ready to go, so i may wait another day until i can get more made up to do the big water change. ...or i guess i could use most of the water in the sump if stuff looks really bad. i'll decide tomorrow.

[graveyardworm]

Interesting, I wonder how the rest of the inverts and bacteria took the treatment. Any dead carcasses floating around?

[Benny Z]

no... in fact, with the lights now off, i noticed a couple of margarita snails i missed pulling out on the prowl and also a bunch of the small flat-shelled slug-looking things cruising all over. i didn't test ammonia today. probably should have. but i'm going to bed.

[Benny Z]

last night i pulled out the rocks with the largest amount of dead hydroids on them and plucked them off. then i did (about) a 60% water change and put fresh carbon in the magnum 350.

think it's safe to turn the sump back on and put the snails and corals back in the display?

[graveyardworm]

So all the ones which were missed are alright? If so you could start adding some back I would'nt put all of a single type in at once just in case. So you dont lose them all.