DSB in a bucket for nitrate control - Page 11

RichConley · #**251** 01/24/2007, 04:31 PM

There shouldnt be any pressure, like maybe 1 PSI. Sand only weighs like 12 lbs/gallon.

5 Gallons is 60lbs or so, so we're looking at 60 lbs over a bucket that is 10 inches across. Thats like 80 square inches, so less than 1 PSI.

Are you using it like a cannister filter? With it sealed and water being pushed back up to the tank?
Even so, we're still only looking at a couple PSI

TekCat · #**252** 01/24/2007, 04:45 PM

Question on securing sand. Would it make sense to lay plastic window screen on top of the fine sand (like pulverized limestone) to keep it in place?

mr.wilson · #**253** 01/25/2007, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TekCat
Question on securing sand. Would it make sense to lay plastic window screen on top of the fine sand (like pulverized limestone) to keep it in place?

Proper flow rates wouldn't be conducive to a sand storm, even with the finest of grades. A layer of coarse sand/gravel at the top would keep it down, and provide a better environment for zooplankton.

You may even want to try a few inches of rubble rock if you don't have a benthic invertebrate zone anywhere else in your system.

the other tang · #**254** 01/25/2007, 01:26 PM

1 psi is not accurate without whatever pressure the pump adds or any restrictions in the tubing after the container. A good rule of thumb is 1/2lb per ft + head pressure. That alone is 2 psi, again before you turn on the pump, I need to find my old pressure calculator program and then i could give an accurate figure. It doesn't take too much pressure to rupture such a container, i have seen a steel 55g drum blow from 15psi air pressure. Simply too much surface area, the same applies here.

It seems to me that course sand is the best option rather than rubble, if and deterius made it into the rsdb it would certainly collect in the rubble. FWIW I has 0 sand geting into my return, I had a carbon filter with foam at the dump that stayed clean over the 16 day trial.

TekCat · #**255** 01/25/2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mr.wilson
You may even want to try a few inches of rubble rock if you don't have a benthic invertebrate zone anywhere else in your system.

That's interesting idea, but wont large rubble collect detrius? Yes, I know, increase the flow,... but rather than tinker with it, laying screen might be easier. Do you think screen could get clogged up with junk too?

the other tang · #**256** 01/26/2007, 02:28 PM

I'd say it would get clogged. again i had a mj120 on mine and got no sandstorm. Mine had a 4' vertical climb to the tank out of the rsdb that helped if there was anything loose. A better way to manage the flow might be either a spraybar or direct the flow at the container itself providing you are sure your water has no particles in it, such as the return from the skimmer.

TekCat · #**257** 01/26/2007, 02:50 PM

gotcha, ... dropping stupid idea with screen

the other tang · #**258** 01/26/2007, 03:01 PM

correction mj 1200

mr.wilson · #**259** 01/26/2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TekCat
That's interesting idea, but wont large rubble collect detrius? Yes, I know, increase the flow,... but rather than tinker with it, laying screen might be easier. Do you think screen could get clogged up with junk too?

Your RDSB should be located at a point in your sump where there is no detritus to be imported. If you cannot do so with your existing system, add a small mechanical filter.

I don't see a benefit to moving any more than 50 GPH over the sand bed. We want to keep it anaerobic with a long contact time. I would use a bleeder valve on an existing pump, rather than add a new dedicated pump just for that purpose.

the other tang · #**260** 01/29/2007, 11:12 AM

OK , I made my 5g bucket version but it failed the leak test. I used the old style ratcheting gasket seal IO salt bucket. Thinking it just might seal. WRONG! It leaked from the head pressure alone, I didn't even get to start the pump. I don't have a sump, and have DIY'ed a HOB style plumbing setup. I am probably just going to silicon the heck out of it tonight, but would like to be able to open it if needed later. Is there another way? If not i'm sure the silicon will do the job.

RichConley · #**261** 01/29/2007, 12:31 PM

did you bang it closed with a hammer?

How far below the tank are you putting this thing? Are you just letting it rip? It should basically work like a closed loop, and have almost no pressure.

the other tang · #**262** 01/29/2007, 01:12 PM

Rich, my tank is approx. 4 1/2' high. I have the rsdb sitting on the floor. I didn't even get to let it rip, I just filled it to let it sit. I wanted to first see if it would hold that minimal pressure, it didn't. No I didn't bang it down with a hammer, I thought the old style IO bucket would work better. In case you use a dif salt, this bucket has a ratcheting mechanism with a release lever to re open it. It also has a nice gasket seal. These buckets are great to keep your salt dry but apparently don't like holding water.

What do you think, silicone it, or try another container?

RichConley · #**263** 01/29/2007, 01:21 PM

I was thinking the old IO buckets that have the seal, and you hit them with a hammer in a rotary type way, and bang them tight...theyre almost like twist locks. I've never seen ratchet ones.

Maybe something along the lines of a 5g water bottle would work better...you'd just have to make some sort of cap for it. I would use on of those rubber ABS-to-ABS things with hte hoseclamps on it.

BeanAnimal · #**264** 01/29/2007, 02:09 PM

The spin on tops are not "old" they are new. The "old" style was the standartd gasketed pickle bucket lid with locking tabs arounf the perimeter.

the other tang · #**265** 01/31/2007, 10:21 AM

RC, right these will go a bit further than hand tight if you smack em' with a hammer. The one I am trying to describe has small teeth around the od of the bucket, and clicks at you tighten the lid. There is a lock to pull back before you can remove the lid again. Very similar to some RX bottles.

Bean, my last few IO buckets are similar but IMO not as good of a lid. They have no lock but do screw on. I believe the fore has a better chance of sealing. I shall soon find out as i siliconed the heck out of it last night. I can't seem to get my new camera working right yet to post a pic, that would certainly help.

tgunn · #**266** 02/02/2007, 11:45 PM

Hey all,
I've been reading about the DSB in a bucket from it's inception. At the current time I have 0 detectable nitrates using a salifert test kit.

However I seem to be undergoing an algae outbreak on my rocks and back glass.. My chaeto grows reasonably well.. I'm just trying to figure out a solution to the algae..

Would a DSB in a bucket provide me any benefit given I have no measurable nitrates? My fish load is pretty light with 3 tangs, 2 clowns and a couple cromis in a 140g tank with 100g sump...

My inclination would be that it would provide me no benefit, does that sound right?

Tyler

a4twenty · #**267** 02/02/2007, 11:49 PM

if your having an algae out break and your chaeto is growing then there are nitrates present. they aren't showing up on the test because the algae is using them up. adding a RDSB may be the difference between the odd algae out break and not.

asmodeus · #**268** 02/02/2007, 11:56 PM

All the readign that I have been doing is showing its a hit and a miss with the RDSB

tgunn · #**269** 02/03/2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by a4twenty
if your having an algae out break and your chaeto is growing then there are nitrates present. they aren't showing up on the test because the algae is using them up. adding a RDSB may be the difference between the odd algae out break and not.

I guess I've always thought that phosphate was my problem.. (even though I can't detect it I know it's just getting used up).. Though I guess it makes sense that the same would go for nitrate since it is a nutrient algae uses readily..

Perhaps the DSB in a bucket is something I should try..

Tyler

tgunn · #**270** 02/03/2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by asmodeus
All the readign that I have been doing is showing its a hit and a miss with the RDSB

I figure it's worth a shot. I have plenty of 5 gallon IO buckets, and a bunch of aragonite sand kicking around. It's just a matter of putting everything together and giving it a shot.

I'd like to stay away from a sulfur denitrator...

Tyler

Lewy · #**271** 02/04/2007, 03:19 AM

This is my setup. Just finished a few hours ago.

Second tub is going to be used a a refugium.

tgunn · #**272** 02/04/2007, 09:53 AM

Nice job! I only wish I could move some of my equipment outdoors; my fish room is getting way too full...

mr.wilson · #**273** 02/04/2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lewy
This is my setup. Just finished a few hours ago.

Second tub is going to be used a a refugium.

The option of keeping the sump outside seems so alien for those of us at the top of the planet. You might as well rub it in with some pictures of your tank draining counter clockwise.

tgunn · #**274** 02/04/2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mr.wilson
The option of keeping the sump outside seems so alien for those of us at the top of the planet. You might as well rub it in with some pictures of your tank draining counter clockwise.

I think the plants in the pictures rubbed it in enough for me.

It's supposed to go to -39C tonight.

Now THAT'S a tank chiller.

Tyler

Lewy · #**275** 02/04/2007, 06:01 PM

How about I rub it in a bit more and take some pics at the LFS of some locally caught black and white ocellaris.