KNO3 dosing Q (primarily) - Page 3

Samala · #51 03/07/2006, 11:36 PM

Clay - this is very true, they do grow with typically limited resources, and in cases in coastal waters where the water is effectively fertilized, eutrophication events persist that usually mean big algae blooms.. as opposed to accelerated seagrass growth. The idea is that seagrass beds in the wild have access to huge turnover of water that is constantly bringing very low levels of nutrients to them. Its still low NSWL but with the immense amount of water coming to them, what they are capable of using adds up quickly.

Having a constant low level amount of N and P is a good thing for a seagrass tank I feel. You dont have to dose up to a big number like 5 or 1ppm, in fact once you have a good sense of dosing and how much your plants use each day, you can do very small daily doses to decrease the risk of irritating other valuable inverts.

The other point, NSW is only rarely enriched for P in the wild, from the data I can find. Our tanks tend to be very different environments and are often very rich in P. Too much P usually sparks microalgae even in seagrass tanks.. if we add the N so the plants can use the P, this is no longer such a big problem.

All that said, if you have good management of nutrients from the usual perspective (water changes, good filters and LR/sand) you dont have to dose nitrate. It is entirely possible to keep seagrass without fertilizing the tank. I see evidence of this in several people's tanks, and even in public aquaria that have attempted live seagrass (Monterey Bay). Fertilizing the tank simply helps me get around the P issue, and accelerates growth which helps me meet my goal.

I have also found that some species of seagrasses, particularly stargrass, do very poorly without good access to N in the tank environment.

Anywho... I am missing part of your point! It isn't very likely that K is the limiting factor and nitrate is being used on a lark. We know from land plants that potassium, while still being necessary, doesnt tend to be too terribly important. Freshwater aquatic plant tanks meet their K needs typically through dosing KNO3, and its still fairly behind carbon, N and P. Unless seagrasses greatly depart from their closest relatives (evolutionarily) it isnt very likely they need huge amounts of it for their growth.

Also.. seawater has pretty good amounts of K to begin with, along with Ca and Na and other salts. So.. I wont say its impossible, just not the explanation I would prefer to use. It would be very interesting to see, if in side by side tanks, one enriched with say NaNO3 did better/worse than one enriched with KNO3. Perhaps that might help to infer a relationship to the potassium being provided.

>Sarah

3D-Reef · #52 03/08/2006, 01:36 PM

Thank you

The_Nexis_One · #53 03/21/2006, 09:32 PM

I finally got around to taking some pictures - now I'm getting around to posting them up... (sorry for the delay)

This is the KNO3 solution I commented on being yellow. I made the batch and drained off the clear solution, leaving the sediment as waste.

John.

DaMan · #54 03/22/2006, 05:42 PM

Just in case you are unaware, Gregwatson.com has a CaNO3 for those that are dosing both. He also has a cheap Fe+ source.

The_Nexis_One · #55 03/22/2006, 07:57 PM

Thanks - I'll check it out.

John.

graveyardworm · #56 04/06/2006, 10:13 PM

Just wanna keep this alive and report a few things. I've been maintaining 4 - 5ppm nitrate with the KNO3 additions. So far it hasnt taken more than a couple tablespoons a week to keep it there, but I also feed fairly heavily ( suncoral, fish and anemone ). I've also been dosing iron 6ml daily, and this past weekend I started dosing iodine, alk, Mg.

The kno3 dosing so far doesnt seem to affected anything, I have a few stony corals which havent lost any color, if anything their color is better. The LTA anemone is a recent purchase it was alittle bleached when I got it but so far its color has improved tremendously, and it's finally eating. There are a few spots of cyano in the lagoon tank which come and go, I attribute these more to feeding than the nitrate addition. Otherwise nuisance micro algae is minimal.

My new mangrove has had great root growth so far, but no new leaf growth. One of my Thalassia is doing very well the other lost its blades shortly after transplant and so far nothing. The rest of the macros and grasses appear to be doing well and growing, except for one brown species of gracillaria which some of it seems to be putting up a good fight and growing while other parts continue to deteriorate.

I've been seriously considering nitrate dosing directly into the substrate around the Thalassia just to see what happens. Anyone with suggestions or opinions regarding this?

Limbo · #57 10/31/2006, 04:42 PM

I've just received my KNO3 from an ebay sale. $10 for 1lb including shipping. It is marked as 99-100% and consists of pure white crystals.

On the can it lists solubility as 36gm/100ml water. I thought this might be useful info for anyone wanting to do a strong solution.

I'm nervous about dosing..... who isn't? Plan to start slow and find that sweet spot with regular testing.

My plan was to use a small water bottle and a syringe. Anyone got a good idea to get the solution out of the bottle once the level drops below the depth the syringe can get to? I only want to get the syringe close to the tank to stop the "oh c*** I've dropped the bottle in" scenario.

graveyardworm · #58 10/31/2006, 05:51 PM

Can you put a short piece of airline tube on the end of the syringe?

Limbo · #59 10/31/2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by graveyardworm
Can you put a short piece of airline tube on the end of the syringe?

That's genius!!! 3ml of air in the syringe = 3ml of solution in the tube.

The_Nexis_One · #60 11/01/2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by graveyardworm
Can you put a short piece of airline tube on the end of the syringe?

That's exactly what I've been doing. There is a minute difference since air compresses/decompresses and water does not, but at the tiny head pressures we are talking about for a 10" section of air line tubing - it's almost not worth mentioning. At this point, Mar 06, I was still putting the tube on the syringe for each use...

I'm still dosing KNO3, and trying to do monthly water changes. I keep running into NO3 limitations as testing for it in the water is skewed by something.

I'm currently having to dose (as in if I miss 1.5 days, Macro's sporolate) 12ml twice a day of the solution discussed earlier.

It's a lot - and a lot more than I would like... but it's what I've worked up to by loosing specimens...

John.

Obi-dad · #61 11/01/2006, 10:36 AM

John, so you have been dosing a long time now, how is the tank and reef inhabitants doing?

Limbo · #62 11/01/2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Obi-dad
John, so you have been dosing a long time now, how is the tank and reef inhabitants doing?

Yeah, how about a FTS?

The_Nexis_One · #63 11/01/2006, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Obi-dad
John, so you have been dosing a long time now, how is the tank and reef inhabitants doing?

Tanks are doing good... they'd be doing better if I could spend more time keeping up with them. The lack of regular dosing has really kicked my butt. I have been adjusting my dosing by watching the inhabitants... Unfortunately, that means my stock in caulerpa is very low as it keeps sporolating and then coming back from a single or pair of fronds. I also just came out of a very bad diatom bloom that wiped out most of my Star grass (seemed to be centered around the star grass stand with much much less everywhere else). Now I'm having problems w/ my Current USA HQI pendant and waiting on a replacement ballast to show up... I think the flicker and color (from non continuos heat levels) have caused a start up in GHA... But... once I got back on top of the NO3 dosing, it has actually died back about 30% and the Seagrass has begun spreading quickly again.

I would imagine it's pretty standard as with most other peoples tanks... it's like balancing a ball bearing on a sheet of glass... once in a while you have it perfectly centered and can catch your breath - but the rest of the time you are in some form of corrective action....

Limbo: FTS?

Catch you later,
John.

Limbo · #64 11/01/2006, 02:03 PM

Full Tank Shot

Samala · #65 11/01/2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

I think the flicker and color (from non continuos heat levels) have caused a start up in GHA... But... once I got back on top of the NO3 dosing, it has actually died back about 30% and the Seagrass has begun spreading quickly again.

How exceedingly interesting....

Diatom bloom over the stargrass and it died. Hmm. Not good. Sounds unfavorably similar to my diatom/dinoflagellate bloom that killed one tank's stargrass bed. I wonder what is going on in the dynamics of that.

So, 12ml / day. Quite a bit. Next time make your solution stronger and you can dose smaller liquid amounts.

I'd love a full tank shot as well. (I still drool over the others..) That is one thing this forum desperately needs, MORE PHOTOS!

>Sarah

Jimbo69 · #66 12/25/2006, 02:10 PM

I was wondering if your only dosing NO3 to control phosphate, not necesserily to grow macro. If you added a carbon source such as sugar/vodka would it speed up things, removing NO3 and P as long as N was not limiting? Would bacteria do this and be removed via the skimmer? I have a BB tank and feed the fish heavily, have no detectable nitrates. So I think P is building up as the only thing that grows is diatoms/flagillates, the chaeto does not seem to grow.

I would speculate that I have an inbalance of N to P

graveyardworm · #67 12/25/2006, 08:28 PM

I would think if it was PO4 that was building up then it would also be accompanied by cyano, and other nuisance algaes like hair algae.

Many macros use N and P at a much higher ratio of N - P. Something 20 parts N to 1 part P. Of coarse not all macros use nutrients in this ratio but some do.

Four reasons your cheato isnt doing well.
1) Phosphate limitation ( unlikely if the tank is fed regularly )
2) Nitrate limitation
3) Iron limitation
4) Inadequate lighting

There were some discussions regarding adding a carbon source to control N and P. I'll see if I can dig them up.

graveyardworm · #68 12/25/2006, 08:40 PM

Use the keyword Vodka in the "search this forum" box at the bottom of the main page you'll get some hits that should answer your question.

Jimbo69 · #69 12/26/2006, 12:55 AM

Merry Christmas!

Thanks worm, I've read pretty much the whole thread on adding sugar.

I do dump food in, I feed the fish blender mush and the corals a finer blend when the lights go out. The fish are nice and fat. I really don't want to dump more in at this point. I could have an iron deficiency.

I do have some diatoms/flagillates. I've observed a little bit more green algae since I've been feeding more often. Just some film type, this leads me to think something is limiting.

I have a 250 watt 14k bulb over a 40g, with 2 seio 820's for circulation. My sps's don't seem to grow, that's why I think there's extra P although it doesn't show on my test kit. If not P the corals are just starving.

Thanks