pappone and BLU Coral method

[fishfanatic06]

I started this stuff last week and I will use it forever. My corals have never looked so well. The polyp extension, color, and growth in my sps has already made a noticeable improvement. It seems like a lot of people have lack of polyp extension during night. This is actually when I saw the most. I use Reef Plus for my aminos. I dose them an hour prior to the pappone feeding.

[DarkXerox]

I'm really glad that people are having positive reactions with the pappone! Didn't expect it to be adopted this quickly.

[messy1messmer]

can you dose a DT's like product on different days or is that not suggested

[Green Thumb]

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
I dont know if I'd say sugar is the active ingredient. IMO it's the blend of seafood. The amount of sugar added is very minimal. Does it feed the bacs, of course. And this in turn helps lower no3 and po4....but the system works because it is a nutrient/food spike. The corals rapidly absorb this. Even more so because of the AA's dosed prior which elicit PE. You could do the same thing with different enzymes to get better PE...

This system addresses problems associated with "nitrogen limitation"... With the food being the limiting factor, hindering growth....when the seafood slush is added food is no longer limiting which is why you hear of the increase in growth.

Does sugar help, yes. But if you have a filtration system and a low nutrient system its addition would go unoticed.

With that said, I dose a C source daily

eric

Just currious, how much of a C source do you add daily? Also what is your waer volume? Are you using ZEO? Do you put sugar in the pappone as well?

Thanks

[SueT]

I don't think I'd dose anything else to my reef. This recipe should cover everything that needs feeding. Being as you do need to walk a tightrope and not overdose enough to cause nuisance algae but enough to let this stuff work it's magic. I think I'd just stick to this pappone.

Yes, in the posted recipe for BluCoral feeding sugar is in the list of ingredients.

[BLKTANG]

Ok ive been folowing this thread,& it seams that overall it is a good mythod.

Does anyone have any b-4,& after pics??

[fishfanatic06]

I dose Dt's phyto daily. Are you saying i should discontinue the use of them?

[SueT]

I'm not going to say if you should discontinue using anything but I will say I wouldn't add anything else to my tank besides this pappone.

[marsh]

I have several questions:

1. How is the pappone much different from Borneman's method of feeding SPS http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=176530

Borneman doesn't appear to use sugar...which I guess in the pappone helps reduce nitrate and phosphate. Otherthan that they seem very similar.

2. What is the purpose of sugar?

3. Do you feed fish separately or do they eat the pappone?

[Flint&Eric]

marsh- the recipe's are very very simmilar, the difference being the particle size. with pappone is should be finely blended like a moush, with no chunks. this is better absorbed by corals etc...

the sugar addresses carbon limitation. it feeds bacs which in turn help keep the po4 and no3 down from the nutrient surge of the pappone. you feed the fish separately. this is done at night and for the corals

Green Thumb- I dose this on a couple tanks. It's my own C source and I use .10ml/10gallons. I do not use zeo, but do add bac additions every now and then to keep the populations where they need to be. I on days that I add pappone I cut back by C dosing.

I cant wait to see more of the zeo guys taking advantage of pappone less the sugar. The color manipulation and nutrient reduction of zeo combined with the nutrient surge and growth of blu coral should be great. I realize that the params arent matched the same, but with a constant stream of cal & alk, as long as it is not limiting...growth should still be much improved. It should help fight the overly pastel look of some zeo tanks....

eric

[Green Thumb]

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
marsh- the recipe's are very very simmilar, the difference being the particle size. with pappone is should be finely blended like a moush, with no chunks. this is better absorbed by corals etc...

the sugar addresses carbon limitation. it feeds bacs which in turn help keep the po4 and no3 down from the nutrient surge of the pappone. you feed the fish separately. this is done at night and for the corals

Green Thumb- I dose this on a couple tanks. It's my own C source and I use .10ml/10gallons. I do not use zeo, but do add bac additions every now and then to keep the populations where they need to be. I on days that I add pappone I cut back by C dosing.

I cant wait to see more of the zeo guys taking advantage of pappone less the sugar. The color manipulation and nutrient reduction of zeo combined with the nutrient surge and growth of blu coral should be great. I realize that the params arent matched the same, but with a constant stream of cal & alk, as long as it is not limiting...growth should still be much improved. It should help fight the overly pastel look of some zeo tanks....

eric

Thank you, so what exactly is your C source? Can I ask you how you make it?

I find this VERY interesting and have also considered dosing a carbon source daily or every 2 days.


By the way Im using Elos amino acids. I add 10 drops before dosing pappone. Ive been thingking of dosing them more frequently though, like every 2 days. What are your thaughts on this?

Im very happy about having been dosing pappone for 1 month. I dont have before and after pics but my growth has deffinatly kicked in. Surely keeping Ca, alk,Mg in check helps alot too...

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
I dont know if I'd say sugar is the active ingredient. IMO it's the blend of seafood. The amount of sugar added is very minimal. Does it feed the bacs, of course. And this in turn helps lower no3 and po4....but the system works because it is a nutrient/food spike. The corals rapidly absorb this. Even more so because of the AA's dosed prior which elicit PE. You could do the same thing with different enzymes to get better PE...

This system addresses problems associated with "nitrogen limitation"... With the food being the limiting factor, hindering growth....when the seafood slush is added food is no longer limiting which is why you hear of the increase in growth.

Does sugar help, yes. But if you have a filtration system and a low nutrient system its addition would go unoticed.

With that said, I dose a C source daily

eric

Most of us were feeding blended seafood/fishgoo before. We would have seen the same effects. The sugar is what makes pappone different from your typical fishgoo.

[Flint&Eric]

my c source is a little bit of this, and a little bit of that i'm still experimenting. The main sources are vodka, sugar, and vinegar and i've been adding some other sources and watching thier effect. I'd suggest start2. It's a great mixed c source and what I use to compare/contrast.

My next batch of pappone I will try adding fish roe and creatine to the blend. It's going to be a while as I have plenty still in my freezer

AA's can help darken colors, but honestly it seems they're most useful for one thing...increasing PE. I add an amino blend every now and then, but primarily only add them with pappone.

Try it out and see if you notice any differences. On my new set up I want to try doing a low dose amino solution with my top off unit so there is a constant supply. If for anything to get some nice PE 24/7.

Anyone try the new KZ snow product? I want to see if it lives up the claims people are making. It would be a great additiong to the BC method, if it truly does allow better abosrbtion of elements to the coral. With the pappone it could have some great results!

eric

[Flint&Eric]

Rich, most of us werent adding AA's before to prime the PE then adding a very finely blended fish goo at night for the sole purpose of corals.

As someone who was adding C sources before adding the pappone blend...the slury of pappone has it's own powerful effect...

the sugar added is very minimal. It does not provide enough bacs to contribute food to the corals to see the results we are getting. Also lowering no3 and po4 would not have an effect on growth or swelling of LPS corals as is experienced...

Green Thumb- I forgot to add, I add C every 1-3 days depending on the look of the tank.

eric

[RichConley]

Originally posted by marsh
I have several questions:

1. How is the pappone much different from Borneman's method of feeding SPS http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=176530

Borneman doesn't appear to use sugar...which I guess in the pappone helps reduce nitrate and phosphate. Otherthan that they seem very similar.

2. What is the purpose of sugar?

3. Do you feed fish separately or do they eat the pappone?

Sugar IS the difference between the two. Even in bournman's stuff, theres plenty of small particles to feed the corals. The difference is that the sugar causes a bacterial spike, which the corals can eat too. It also helps keep nutrients down.

[Flint&Eric]

rich you're right. but take a look at the amount of sugar added and then think about the size of bacterial spike that will happen...it is very minimal and plays a part, but a small one.

borneman add's a bunch of "extra" in his (I dont think my corals need vibragrow). Although simmilar the italians perfected it.

I guess what I am getting at is, if one were to dose a C source and feed borneman's recipe they would not see the same results. I know because I have tried.

eric

[JRod]

Can I just jump in here with a couple of questions/statements, not sure if they were answered, if so I apologize.

1) Before all, as with any method water quality is the key here and until parameters are in check, stay away.

2) Do you add AA only prior to feeding, 2X week or every day. See conflicting info.

3) Can L-Glut be added to the mix and SeaChem be added as the normal AA addtion an hour before.

4) Obviously everyone has a different coral load. Is the 1/4 cube at start subjective to coral load. Meaning if someone has 10 frags in a 120 compared to 30 full colonies in a 120. Does one add more and the other less.

Thanks. Was going to try Zeo, but may go here first for that extra pop in my corals.

Joe

[mcintosh]

Just a quick point about the pappone, from someone who has not used it yet. It IS different from Bornemans recipe in several ways. Primarily the percentage of raw, fresh shellfish being used. Which of us is able to report all of the available proteins being added that are from a "natural" source the corals are used to? The blood of the shellfish probably also cause a significant bacterial bloom that we are not recognizing and the small size of the total pappone as well as the aggregates of the bacterial cloud associated with the total mix add to the food availability.

In other words. It isn't JUST the sugar, but it is the total, the aggregate.

[mcintosh]

Just a quick point about the pappone, from someone who has not used it yet. It IS different from Bornemans recipe in several ways. Primarily the percentage of raw, fresh shellfish being used. Which of us is able to report all of the available proteins being added that are from a "natural" source the corals are used to? The blood of the shellfish probably also cause a significant bacterial bloom that we are not recognizing and the small size of the total pappone as well as the aggregates of the bacterial cloud associated with the total mix add to the food availability.

In other words. It isn't JUST the sugar, but it is the total, the aggregate.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
rich you're right. but take a look at the amount of sugar added and then think about the size of bacterial spike that will happen...it is very minimal and plays a part, but a small one.

borneman add's a bunch of "extra" in his (I dont think my corals need vibragrow). Although simmilar the italians perfected it.

I guess what I am getting at is, if one were to dose a C source and feed borneman's recipe they would not see the same results. I know because I have tried.

eric

The amount of sugar being added is MUCH more than the amount of amino acids being added. The amino acid pills are mostly filler, and the aquarium based ones are mostly water. It doesnt take a lot of sugar to do the job.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by mcintosh
Just a quick point about the pappone, from someone who has not used it yet. It IS different from Bornemans recipe in several ways. Primarily the percentage of raw, fresh shellfish being used. Which of us is able to report all of the available proteins being added that are from a "natural" source the corals are used to? The blood of the shellfish probably also cause a significant bacterial bloom that we are not recognizing and the small size of the total pappone as well as the aggregates of the bacterial cloud associated with the total mix add to the food availability.

In other words. It isn't JUST the sugar, but it is the total, the aggregate.

Right, but the sugar is what differentiates it from typical fish goo. Plenty of us have been using fishgoo with large amounts of shellfish in it for years. The sugar is the new part.

[danskim]

Sheesh let's not argue!

Why don't we settle it the old scientific way?
(I am not volunteering).

[GraviT]

I used a small amount of Pappone once a week for 3 weeks and ended up with a lovely mat of cyano and dino on my sandbed. No more for me.

I used the SeaChem Reef Plus for an AA suppliment, but had been using it for almost a month before I started the pappone. I'm not sure where the heck the dino came from, maybe it was in the gut of some of the seafood.

[SueT]

I haven't had any nuisance algae pop up anywhere. I do have plenty of flow so don't know if that might be the answer or not.

JRod, yes, SeaChems Reef Plus{or any AA} are adding 2 hours or so before adding the pappone. L-Glutaimne is added to the mixture and then frozen. I'm not sure about the total amount to add. I have a heavily stocked 120g and started with adding 1 cube and now after 16 feedings, of which the last 5 have been every 5 days and I'm still using 1 cube.

[JRod]

Sue,

Thanks for the reply. I guess I did not phrase exactly. Are AA added everyday or only prior to adding the Pappone 1X a week. Thanks.