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#28
07/04/2002, 07:38 AM
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A couple points.
First, why are hobbiests responsible for tank rearing their stock? Frankly, if they all did so at first it would be wonderful, but soon it would be a very bad thing. Think about the dog and cat trade now. People don't expect pet owners to breed their animals. In fact, they are encouraged not to because the market is flooded with animals. What will these hobbiest / breeders do with all the stock? Without good distribution, they will end up with 100's of fish and nothing to do with them. Secondly, your conception is a bit slanted, perhaps because of your inexperience. This is someone akin to me calling up NASA and giving them pointers on the next space shuttle because I've read a few books on aerodynamics and toured their facility. Just a rough guess, but I'd be willing to say that (sadly) 80% of hobbiests can't keep their current livestock alive let alone breed them, another 11% don't have the space or resources to breed, and the remaining 8.999% don't have the time to do all the things necessary to raise them. That leaves .001% that will make the breakthroughs that will eventually come in tank breeding. Personally, I don't expect the average hobbiest to breed their fish, or even attempt it. Nor do I even think it's a good idea for the reasons mentioned in my first point.
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-Greg If you want to know - ask. But I won't promise you'll like the answer. |
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#30
07/04/2002, 09:10 AM
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Frick-n-Frags said it all: talk is cheap.
The thing to do is to succeed in breeding some fish species yourself, then write an article (or book) and show people how it's done. Then some who are interested will follow you, maybe improve on your technique. Then someone will commercialize the process and then we'll see captive bred for that species instead of wild caught. It is unrealistic to expect that the average hobbyist has the time,. money, sill, or level of interest to breed fish. But then I see that you're a dreamer  .
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#33
07/04/2002, 10:44 AM
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This is very interesting, the two sides to this thread.
Without someone stepping forward and breaking new ground the hobby doesnt grow, BUT only a very small percentage of people are even capable of knowing what ground to break. Of those, only a small percentage are willing to try. I agree, we dont need everyone breeding fish. I myself have made several attempts at raising mandarins. Success to this point has been a day or so past yolk sac. Some people dont even like mandarins. A batch could possible have over 50 fish. What would we do if everyone had 50 baby mandarins? Seems absurd? Look at the recent explosion in bangaii breeding. I think its great we can breed these fish, but at what point do we meet market saturation? Why should we stop at fish? What about all the other critters in our tanks? SPS are fairly easy. Softies have been done. LPS? Shrimp? Starfish? The list goes on. Who should do the breeding? Some putz that walks into the major chainstore LFS and buys a 10 gallon tank, air pump, bag of blue marbles, and a dozen yellow tangs? Louis Z - I think your intent is good. I think we need to let those with the knowledge and desire do the ground breaking. I also think a few folks are pushing the envelope without everyone knowing it. Search this board (and others) and I'm sure you will find hints, if not full admissions, of folks doing what you're asking about. Just me rambling Dwayne
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SPS - Reactor media waiting to happen. "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill |
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#34
07/04/2002, 10:48 AM
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randy
theres no way as many negative comments ive got about my typing and spelling skills(even by a coulple moderators) that your worse than i so you can be the second worse if you like(lol)
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eddie |
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#35
07/04/2002, 11:28 AM
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captivity breeding answer
have you checked out the new ECOAqualizer. I think thats your answer. go to www.ecoaqualizer.com and check it out. My tank has been restored and everything in it acts like it's in the ocean again. Captivity is a thing of the past.....finally.
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#36
07/04/2002, 11:39 AM
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Lots of us breed marine fish... where technically possible. Just breeding clownfish requires vast amounts of time and $. Once you do a littlw research, you find out that its another ballgame when going from clownfish to say pygmy angles or tangs. Fry food is the key (as well as space...), and once the correctly-sized foods are commercially available (if ever) then alot more hobbyists will start on pygmy angles and the like...
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#37
07/04/2002, 11:40 AM
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aquafish, seems a bit to good to be true....Do you own stock in the company that makes those "magical" things? If so sounds like yo uwant to promote them.....What does that have to do with breeding? So all I have to do is put one of those ECOaqualizer on my tank and my tangs will breed....ok....
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#38
07/04/2002, 11:51 AM
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Re: captivity breeding answer
Quote:
In either case, you prove the point that not everyone should try breeding marine animals. Dwayne
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SPS - Reactor media waiting to happen. "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill |
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#39
07/04/2002, 01:18 PM
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What the hey! I'll jump in. I'm currently in the process of trying to raise Orange-spotted sandsifter goby fry. I've had two spawns that I'm aware of so far. The first I was able to retrieve the rock that the eggs were on minutes prior to a mass hatch. Pure blind luck. I didn't even know they spawned until I wanted to rearrange the stupid rock! I happened to have a spare 15 gal. tank that I scurried to set up. Then a trip to a LFS to get an air pump, air stones, and some tubing. Mind you, all of this was due to the fact that my wife...who would like nothing better than for me to rid the home of this hobby...saw the eggs and immediately said that I must do all I can to save them! Frantic searching on the internet and the breeders forum gave me some info to start off with...part of which was recognizing when the hatch time was close. Another site was actually a goby research institute and that guy was a big help. I was still caught with my pants down for I had nothing live to feed the larvae. I tried so-called substitutes but within a couple of days there was 100% mortality.
About five days later the pair was again making a nest. The clue I was looking for was the female being buried in the cave with the egg mass by the male. I thought this was happening so I again removed the rock with egg mass. During the next three to four days less than a dozen probably hatched whereas before, there were several hundred. My only guess is that it was the male shut in fertilizing the eggs and I unknowingly interrupted him. By this time I had going cultures of Nanno microalgae, rotifers, and even paramecium and copepod larvae. All of which is available and can be cultured. The point? Positive: It's a new aspect of the hobby for me. It has been kind of exciting. Negative: It's work. It's time consuming. Takes lots of space. And so far it has been quite disappointing. I've learned a lot and hope to make improvements as things progress. Will I succeed? Who knows? I sure would like to just for the personal satisfaction. I will probably miss the next spawn because the pair has caught on to me and have made their new nest where I cannot get to them. They apparently are not stupid. Knowing what I've been thru and have learned, would I do things differently? Yes. Unless I could really dedicate myself to this, I probably would not start something like this again. Because of this, I do not think there is a great worry of too many hobbyist's willing to sacrifice the time and money to pull this off. So there probably will never be a "market saturation" of tank raised fish. To those who want to try...research, be prepared, and good luck. |
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#40
07/04/2002, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Freshwater fishes - 99 cents to 2.99 cheap. thats what is preventing me to try.. |
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#41
07/04/2002, 01:34 PM
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Could any reasonable person really believe that the "ECO-Aqualizer has been able to capture the Earth's magnetic field and the Sun's far infrared waves and very strategically pack them into a single vacuum chamber."
Sounds like a scam to me. Yikes! Ernie
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Why put off until tomorrow the thing you could do the day after. |
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#42
07/04/2002, 02:12 PM
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Re: Re: captivity breeding answer
all of his posts regard to that web page, so yes I assume its commerical post.
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#43
07/04/2002, 02:42 PM
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not sure what that thing is but i think its like the reverse polarity magnets used in areo hydroponic systems to keep the salt from cloging the fogers ill have to read the whole web site
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#45
07/04/2002, 02:50 PM
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yep
thats all it is if you ever took some magnets and reversed there polarity thats all it does drag rasers use them on their fuel lines also jc witny sells some supposed to make you get better gas milage but i've seen them on areo hydroponic systems they sell them at aqatic eco systems also they just tryed to make it look like new technology i've thought of making some 3 years ago for my reef just never did
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eddie |
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#47
07/04/2002, 02:56 PM
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Louis if your concern is for preventing reef destruction........ then i respect it and i will give you my point of view. When i was still in FW tanks i had many types of fish spawn and i used to raise the fry till adulthood. end result i can post you the images of around 500 fish in 8-9 tanks filling all my house, increasing my electrical bill, consuming most of my time. and depite all the effort i put to raise these fry not to mention all the costs of their feedings and medications when i decided to shift to SW i had many troubles finding someone who would take live locally bred fish. believe me LFS owners would rather buy fish and tolerate losses due to shipment and highermortality rates due to acclimatation and at last i had to give around 200 fish for free. Now saltwater is totally different just consider the costs of those feeding cultures, and the number of aquariums to keep with all their equipment and electrical consumption and the mortality rate.... and you'll realise that trying to breed marine fish is no task for the hobbyist to undertake. Now hearing that you still don't have a tank explains it all. you're considering which fish to breed before considering cycling your tank making it a disease free environment , getting rid of all alga outbreaks and water parameter problems... once you start a tank the above will take so much of your time and money that's youll have no time to dream of all the things you're holding us responsible of. I respect the nature of your concerns and i totally agree that we must all share what we know or notice in our tank but to begin preparing live cultures and holding tanks is most probably wrong.
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#48
07/04/2002, 09:34 PM
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I will check on the actual status, list etc, etc of the fish I see at my LFS this weekend. I was told they are captive raised. I will see what that actually means. When I was doing FW I was rasind Ciclids. It was very time consuming and not real profiable. I like the idea, but it may prove to be to expensice for most of us.
Later Mark
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Beware the light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes it's a train. |
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#49
07/04/2002, 10:09 PM
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Louis Z,
Many of us are invovled with breeding, but, guess what it's a heck of a lot harder than breeding FW fish, many of which will take brine within a few days and are cared for by their parents. SW species that will take rotifers are being bred like crazy, although it's pretty clear it's tuff to be sucessful at the commerical level (with some obvious exceptions). The problem species for which the fry are too small to take rotifers (like tangs) are a pretty big challenge to anyone. Every try raising cililates at home and still having a full time job?
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"Failing to plan is planning to fail." DIVE SAFE |
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#50
07/04/2002, 10:12 PM
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Boy that eco aquamathingy makes Marc Weiss sound credible. I'd be willing to bet the testimonials are fake. Anyone living in Houston care to investigate "Jason Easterby of Aquarium Managemnent Services" ? IF they didn't oversell it so much they wouldn't seem so phoney.
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Reef tanks are like cars, the faster you go the harder you crash |
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