dabating to use protein skimmer W/ refugium and caulerpa

[ramsin32]

hello friends,
thanks u for all ur imputs; i have setup 30 gal fefugium with 4 inch mud and caulerpa for a month now on a 60 gal reef/ fish tank; but i still have green algea growing so i ordered a seaclone protein skimmer to possibally running it with refugium;

if any of u guys have a ecosystem style refugium could u share with me if u use a protein skimmer or not??

my concern is trace element export if i use a skimmer;

thanks for ur sdvice in advance

ramsin

[Randy V]

I run a dsb refugium rather than an ecosystem style 'fuge but I wouldn't worry about removing too many trace elements. Some of the recent evidence I have read indicates that our much larger problem is the accumulation of trace elements rather than depletion.

I am not familiar with the seaclone skimmer and have never used one personally. But if you do a search on the boards you may find reassurance that you aren't in danger of removing too much of anything, particularly with a 75 or 80 gallon water column.

[Dakna]

DON'T get a SeaClone. Mine worked very little to say the least. Even with the modifications.

[Bob F]

I run an almost identical system but with 5" DSB in sump. I initially started with a skimmer for first several months and the system did well. I think while you are still fighting algae it is a good thing and if I ever have those problems again I think I would set up skimmer again to help. Remember it will take months for your macro algae, DSB, and LR to mature and stabilize with your particular system's needs.

I would get a better skimmer though even if you are only going to use it for a few months. I finally took skimmer off as it wasn't pulling much out any more and I wanted a more "natural" system. That's a whole other discussion.

Bob

[Dragonlady]

I use a skimmer in combination with the fuge. Many people think that skimmers are not necessary on a reef tank, but IME they are necessary at least some of the time. The skimmer is usually turned off for 24 hours after feeding phytoplankton. Since I don't have a true DSB, the protein skimmer helps compensate for it. From what I have read, DSB's are difficult to move if you need to move to your tank to another location. Since I added the fuge, my xenia does not seem to be growing as fast.

Has anyone kept an anemone thriving for longer than 3 years without a protein skimmer? I would really like to know.

[ramsin32]

thanks so far for all ur imputs

[organicreefer]

i have a 30 fuge with a dsb and caulerpa on my 120.i do employ "moderate "skimming(rsb/kent venturi/mag7) and carbon at this time -partly because i dont feel that my refugium is big enough for my system/bioload-and partly because i keep a mixed reef with ALL kinds of corals and im concerned about "chemical warfare".
i have an etss 800 in the closet if the rsb doesnt seem to cut it-so far im satisfied.

[ramsin32]

by the way my nitrate is zero just to let u know. i dont have a phosphate test kit;

and i am sure i am introducing silicate everytime i add top off water which is 1 gal every other day

does anyone use any good silicate remover prior to top off?

[CleveYank]

the perfect answer is some tanks need both refugium and skimmer and some just the ref and no skimmer
it depends on the tank size and bioload and live rock density and current and turnover rate and many many other unique concerns and issues specific to each specific tank.

I would run both and do so myself. I am also bringing a homemade de-nitrator online in my system soon for extra insurance against the unwanted micro algae...but hey I am a freak about having a tank setup that can compensate all by itself to any given nutrient increase.

[fishosofer]

Dragonlady hi! Xenia seems to do better in systems with higher nutrient levels, and it may be that the refugium is 'stealing them away' from your xenia.

ramsin32 hi! An R.O.D.I. unit is the way to go.Get a decent skimmer, not a sea clone.There are accounts of people who keep both anemones and corals with no skimming at all, but they do use other methods for exporting nutrients out of the tank, like harvesting macro's, or xenia's on a reg. basis.A good skimmer leaves a bit more 'room for error', however, and should be a big aid with micro algae issues, from the nutrient export occuring when it removes phytoplankton from your system.

[alf3482]

Iuse a refugium with a 3" DSB and a skimmer. No problems. The use of both are a common practice and you should not worry about the loss of trace elements as long as you do good regular water changes. HTH

[Leopardshark]

what ever you do... don´t buy a sea clone!!! that skimmer sucks!!!
I would use the refugium and skimmer

[fsa]

ramsin, isn't it a bummer for everyone to tell you not to get the sea clone after you have already ordered it? Just fyi, I did read (3 or 4 days ago, I think) some good posts on the apparently "new" version of the sea clone that has come out recently. Wish I could remember which board I saw it on to refer you to it. If the whole thing has only been set up for a month or so, then, I wouldn't worry too much about the green algae. What is good about that is that you just might have to purchase another critter or two to help take care of it .

[Malcolm_C]

Ditto on the Seaclone response, I purchased two and they both suck!

[ramsin32]

FSA,
you are abselutely right; i have already ordered it and it think i will use it for a month and if as everybody says it is a junk, i will wait till i have 200$ and i will get AquaC product.

the reason i bought this was of course price (70$) and the fact that my local aquarium store has two and they seem to collect a looot of dark brown stuff.

anyway since i have a refugium i think even if this skimmer works half the others it would be all right because i dont want to deprive my refugium too much from all the organic stuff.

my plan is after the refugium settle 1 could completely remove all the artificial ways of removing agranic material and allow the tank to self regulate-- that is obviously the ultimate goal foe all of us.

thank a lot for everyone's imput so far

sincerely,

ramsin

[Malcolm_C]

fsa,

You may be correct, but I was told the same thing from the Manufacture one year after buying my first one. It worked ok for about two weeks, suddenly the little Toronto it once made disappeared, and it no longer skimmed. They may have developed a new and improved product, but I just don't want to see someone get suckered like I did, especially since they suckered me twice.

ramsin32, I hope the skimmer serves your purposes, if it dose $70 is a good price, but if it doesn't a new skimmer will now have cost you $270 dollars

[Bob F]

Business idea for those of us who are only going to use a skimmer temporarily until refug/algae scrubber gets going, Skimmer Rentals R Us. Six month skimmer rental of an adequate skimmer like an excalibur.

Seriously do you know of any local reefers that are no longer using theirs? I have an Excalibur and two US aquariums that sit in the basement. I am sure there are guys like me in your area.

Bob

[ajx22]

220Gal Tank + 40Gal refugium:
6" DSB in Refugium
4.5" DSB in Tank

+ 24/7 use of skimmer.

All levels are PERFECT and the tank is THRIVING.

IMO - a good skimmer is a very sound investment for the long-run of your reef - even with the use of a refugium.

Regards,