30 gallon sump/fuge on a 30 gallon display

zachofalltrades · #1 12/11/2007, 11:58 PM

alright well i'm not throwing out pictures of a heater i coiled together myself or anything so somebody stop me if i'm posting this in the wrong area all together....

i have a 30 gallon tank that i took over and have been maintaining for about 6 months, the previous owner had passed away and it was in the family. the tank is old however, about 4 years established. i'd like to eventually bump the display up to 75 gallons but i'd have to talk my girlfriend into letting me spend the money first....

so i want to add a refugium to increase the health of my fish a bit, since in my newbie not-knowing-any-betterness, i bought a mandarin after already having a six-line wrasse.... i have tons of tanks and a fair amount of equipment from previously mentioned deceased aquarist. i figured the best way to go would be to add a 30 gallon tank to act as a sump/refugium because it would be of decent size should i eventually be able to upgrade to a 75.

and there's the idea. the pvc overflow, if anybody is unfamiliar, could be explained by searching around either here or on google. i have another 30 long that has freshwater in it right now, that i'd clean out not shown in the diagram, i think i have a spare 2-48 fluorescent fixture that i'd put a couple of 6500k bulbs in... a little big but i'm trying to go cheap. i also don't want to drill any holes hense the submersible pump. the lights would run on a reverse daylight schedule, and the fuge would be full of rock and probably some macro... and a misbehaving fish or two.

my current 200 watt visitherm stealth should still be fine for heat i think, but i'd probably put a second one in anyways since that's better than one... oh and all the plumbin would either be 1 inch or 1.5 inch pvc.

please offer any critique you can or suggestion, this is after all my first saltwater tank. but the things i wasn't quite too sure on were the piping diameters and the flowrate of the pump. supposedly i could get away wit 1 inch pipe, maybe 1.5 or 2 even on the drain though. for pump i figured somewhere around 300-500 gph. i actually already have a 300 gph max water pump but it's not submersible and it's a general purpose pump, and currently has copper fittins on it an god knows what it's made out o on the inside, so i don't htink i want to use it.

ps... i need batteries in my keyboard, so my shift doesn't work, hah1

brian@sen · #2 12/12/2007, 08:20 AM

I kinda have the same setup you're talking about but mine is 2 10 gallons. I started it pretty much exactly how your pic shows but have changed stuff around since then. The first thing I got rid of was the check valve on the return line to the tank. Pieces of macro algea would get stuck between the seal and the flapper rendering it useless. Just put a couple holes in the return line just below the water surface in the display to act as a siphon break and you will thank yourself later. I originally even went with a homemade PVC U tube overflow and it worked great for over a year but then it lost its siphon and I could not get it to re prime so I got a used HOB overflow from someone that was upgrading and man what a difference. HOB overflows are extremely quiet if set up properly and do a much better job of surface skimming the top of the display. The PVC U tube was noisy but I didn't realize how noisy until I went with a HOB. The only other difference is I put a HOB skimmer on mine. I plumbed my tank with 1/2" to the display and 3/4" back to the sump. Flow rates I can't help with but my 10s were only flowing about 80gph between them. HTH

zachofalltrades · #3 12/20/2007, 11:09 PM

Ok, I've updated my idea for the fuge. Also stopped at Petsmart on the way home and found they had mispriced a Quietone 3000 pump (780gph) for $37... which I heard they're not the best pumps but that's pretty cheap. I did a new diagram, changed my mind on the PVC overflow if it's really that noisy. Found this overflow on Drs F&S:

Eshopps Overflow Box

Q #1, has anybody heard of these overflows? I mean, at a glance I don't see anything wrong with it. I'd probably be looking at the 800gph one.

Q #2, what's the best way to get dividers for the tank? I'm going to call a glass place tomorrow to see if they would just cut me some pieces and sell em to me, but just out of curiosity can I use acrylic sheet for the dividers and baffles in a glass tank? I don't see why not since it's just going to be silicone holding it in place anyways. I know home depot sells it, but come to think of it I bet they sell glass too... I remember watching my dad cut glass before, and he's not a man of "finesse."

thor32766 · #4 12/21/2007, 10:27 AM

i used acrylic sheets in my old 20l reef on glass. Never had a single problem with it. I just siliconed it in. That ref was setup for over three years and never a problem.

Toddrtrex · #5 12/21/2007, 01:03 PM

I have an Eshopps overflow box on my 29, and I had to modify the U Tube so that it wouldn't lose its siphon whenever the main pump was shut off. -- Wish I would have spent the extra money and got a LifeReef one like I have on my 75.

I used acrylic sheets for the baffles for all 3 of the sumps that I have made, used 1/4 inch ones. Worked out perfectly for me. My oldest sump is 4+ years old and the silicone is holding the baffles in place perfectly.

brian@sen · #6 12/21/2007, 03:14 PM

So Toddrtrex what did you have to do to the U tube to get it to work? I have no experience with the HOB overflows except for the one I have and I don't even know what brand it is. Mine has never lost siphon in a power outage but I occasionally have air bubbles accumulate near the end of the U tube that just will not go out. I don't know how much it's rated for but I was told I don't have enough flow to get the air bubbles out. 80gph is slow so I just check it as part of regular tank maintenance.

Toddrtrex · #7 12/21/2007, 03:18 PM

I had to add a piece of PVC pipe to the one end of the U-Tube -- the side that is in the tank. And it wasn't as simple as that. The box that sits in the tank is too shallow, IMO, so I had just enough room to add the pipe to stop it from losing siphon, but still have enough room for the water to get into the pipe.

Wow, 80 gph is slow. Good that you check it with your regular maintenance -- once in a while I go out of town for over a week, wouldn't trust it myself.

Amoore311 · #8 12/21/2007, 03:55 PM

For the baffles in the sump I would just use regular old glass you can have cut for you at Lowes.

It's a lot cheaper, and Silicone works much better with glass than with acrylic. Measurement wise I just brought my tank (10gallon) that I was using as the sump and had them measure and cut if for me quick.

I have not had any experience with that specific overflow. But getting a dual pipe unit like the one you listed is a good idea. If anything should clog one of the drains, you have the other to take care of business.

Do you plan on adding a skimmer?? If the answer is yes I would add it to the first section of the sump (where the display drains too). This will give you the most space to dissipate any micro bubbles comming from the drain/skimmer output.

zachofalltrades · #9 12/22/2007, 02:25 PM

Yeah I'm thinking about eventually adding a skimmer, so any input on how much space I should leave for that would be appreciated. The local home depot is always a PITA to find people, and lowes is far from me, so I called a glass place today and picked up my 5 pieces of 1/4" plate cut for $40. Sounded reasonable to me since the acrylic alone would have cost me about that much, not including the blades I would need to buy.