economy vs purchase

[swtraise]

Hello,
My name is Tim, I have lurked here for years, & finally joined. I raise a variety of macros, inverts, and fish that I sell in bulk on a wholesale basis to some of the large online dealers and "break bulk" operations that sell to your LFS. My question to the group is, do you feel that because of the economy you are less likely to spend money on your systems, especially livestock? Reason I'm asking here is, you are the end consumers! The buyers all say "keep raising" but that's no guarantee of an order,(buyers are liars). I wanted to find out from the people that are making the real end decision.
Thanks
Tim

[Zestay]

uhmm.. bush has nothing to due with my reef tank.

[jman77]

Personally, i think you are a troll, but just in case you are not.

Economy is bad, plain and simple, and it will get worse.
I've spent less due to that fact on everything ... I will spend even less in the coming years.

Tim , you can try to raise the prices, but the fact is sales are bad, not just for this hobby, but on a general level.

Think of it this way , you have a hard time making the house payment, everytime you go to the gas pump you feel depressed, dollar has lost it's value... and the LFS just raised the price of something you where already having a hard time buying.... I'm blessed that i currently do not fall under the above scenario, but unfortunately more than a few Americans do.

I'm going to be extra frugal in the coming years for the "just in case” and especially with a recession on our doorsteps.

[jman77]

Zestay,

Tim didn't mention Bush, so please keep him out of it

[swtraise]

Zestay,
Thats 1 in the positive column! I'll probably get in trouble for this but I wish "he-they" had nothing to do with my business. I'm not going to say anything else political. Everyone needs to express thier opinion at the ballot booth.
Thanks
Tim

[usmc121581]

Originally posted by Zestay
uhmm.. bush has nothing to due with my reef tank.

Bush has everything to do with my buying. Seeing how he controls my pay.

[jman77]

He doesn't control your pay, but anyways,, if you turn this "poll" political, it will get locked faster than you get taxed..

This is not the place to talk about Bush.

[swtraise]

jman77
1st, I'm not a troll! 2nd, I do not have any intention of raising my prices to them. My main concern is that I am looking at spending a lot of time and money & getting back into raising seahorses. So, if the general opinion to the original question is, "I'm cutting back" then I would need to rethink the plan. On the pricing issue I do try to do my best to not raise prices, by being more effecient. To me this makes sense, I raise more at the same price with less expense, I make more!
Thanks
Tim

[usmc121581]

Originally posted by jman77
He doesn't control your pay, but anyways,, if you turn this "poll" political, it will get locked faster than you get taxed..

This is not the place to talk about Bush.

Yeah I forgot you know every thing. But Ill leave it at that.

[jman77]

"Yeah I forgot you know every thing. But Ill leave it at that."

Control and heavily influence are 2 different things.... easy there Marine, stand down

[usmc121581]

Not tring to take it out on you, just ****ed at the NFL refs this year.

[swtraise]

Gentleman,

PLEASE, back to the subject, I don't want this thread killed. Sorry if anything I said offended anyone.
Thanks
Tim

[shawnkfl]

i find the prices for an aquarium are a little more out of reach only due to the ever increasing costs of every day needs. i'm finding it harder and harder to justify having a reef or any aquarium for that matter. my family needs come first, of course there are bills, mortgage, gas. everything going up at an astronomical rate. even if aquarium supplies and livestock remain as they are (which is impossible) it's tough to justify a $70.00 coral, much less the food and supplies to keep it.

[usmc121581]

Ok then back to it. Yeah like mentioned above. I wish I never had to fill the tanks up in both my cars. YEah I dont pay rent/house payment. I am lucky I live on base. But come next year I wont be. This however will decide if I keep going in the hobby or stay were I am now. If you want to hear the truth, then lower the prices a little. I dont blame the distributors. I blame all LFS. I was one of the few that had the chance to see how much the LFS pays for a fish or coral, and then turning around and selling for. Its robbery the % they raise it.

[usmc121581]

Originally posted by shawnkfl
i find the prices for an aquarium are a little more out of reach only due to the ever increasing costs of every day needs. i'm finding it harder and harder to justify having a reef or any aquarium for that matter. my family needs come first, of course there are bills, mortgage, gas. everything going up at an astronomical rate. even if aquarium supplies and livestock remain as they are (which is impossible) it's tough to justify a $70.00 coral, much less the food and supplies to keep it.

That $70 coral cost the LFS maybe $5-10.

[Kaos]

To this point the economy has had no influence on my livestock purchases, but I buy very little from the LFS. The reason being their prices are extremely high (and selection is poor) compared to what I can get from a fellow hobbist.

[Pmolan]

Some say that Bush controls the media!!

Either way, I plan to spend less on livestock in the coming years because I plan to keep what I already have alive.

[swtraise]

Hello,
The LFS are faced with a few problems.
It use to be that the owners kids would LEARN the business, and be able to run the store, deal with customers, and have a true understanding of what they we're selling, and love it. That does not happen much anymore. Finding "help" is a joke, I hate to say it but a lot of people don't want to work or learn thier job. They are also faced with the internet, I know a couple LFS owners that are paying more than 3000.00 per month just for rent, plus elec. ins. & everything else,
and they need to put on a pretty face with the store so we all feel good. Compared to that you would not believe what the "other" places
look like, I won't say any more about that. I think it is sad that the true LFS type of stores that I grew up with are going away. As far as a 70.00 corral costing them 5 or 10, that's way off, I know what my prices are and have a bit of an idea as to what the LFS are paying. However you need to keep in mind, price is determined on this stuff the same as gas & everything else, whatever the market will bare.
Thanks
Tim

[Morel]

All depends. With no family and no kids I have a larger amount of desposable income.. And I work in a business that is (largely) recession proof.. not to say I don't get worried..

But all in all, I have alot of other things I can cut down before changing my Reef Tank habits.. And the fact that I don't have any room for live rock kinda helps out in that

[usmc121581]

Originally posted by swtraise
Hello,
The LFS are faced with a few problems.
It use to be that the owners kids would LEARN the business, and be able to run the store, deal with customers, and have a true understanding of what they we're selling, and love it. That does not happen much anymore. Finding "help" is a joke, I hate to say it but a lot of people don't want to work or learn thier job. They are also faced with the internet, I know a couple LFS owners that are paying more than 3000.00 per month just for rent, plus elec. ins. & everything else,
and they need to put on a pretty face with the store so we all feel good. Compared to that you would not believe what the "other" places
look like, I won't say any more about that. I think it is sad that the true LFS type of stores that I grew up with are going away. As far as a 70.00 corral costing them 5 or 10, that's way off, I know what my prices are and have a bit of an idea as to what the LFS are paying. However you need to keep in mind, price is determined on this stuff the same as gas & everything else, whatever the market will bare.
Thanks
Tim

I will give you the LFS really dont keep it in the family any more or about the kids growing up learning it. But the price I sen for my own eyes. I store I helped out at was paying anywere between $5-20 for corals and then turning around and selling them for well over $100 thats probaly not true for all but the majority around here it is. But to take there side a little the least they pay for rent a month is close to $8,000/month on top of electric. Also some owners I ran across will charge what they think you can afford, they judge the price on your apperance.

[chefer]

My mom owns a pet store for years and constantly compeats with big chains like petco, walmart, petsmart. who can by their product cheaper than she buys it for. I know there are store out there that charge more then they should so don't buy there bottom line. People come to my moms store for the "free advise" then go to the chain stores to buy their stuff to save 5 bucks. These large chain stores will wipe out the little guy eventually and then every one will be *****ing about the large guys. Quit your *****ing and if things are that tight get out of it. This is an expensive hobby. I am alway researching how to save money myself because money is tight for me as well but good service and advise don't come free. These stores are struggling just like you to make a living. I know this for a fact. Sorry for the rant but it has to be said. I have learned a lot for reef maintance that would help me maybe free up some money for more things. You just have to do some research. Mark up on stuff is usually 50% just so you know.

[usmc121581]

I have been up and down the east coast mark up on someLFS is more then that sometimes even 100% wholesale price. So before you let us know do some research on LFS around the US

[chefer]

you obviously don't own your own store. Yes some of the stuff is marked up more then 50% but I am in the retail business and I know what some stuff is. I work in the restaraunt business and my wife is in the furniture business and in order to make a profit after you pay all your over head, rent, payroll taxes ect. sometimes you can go over the 50% mark up. You must not understand the costs involved with a business. An example a dish that cost 2.00 to make we sell for 10.00. That might sound like a lot but generally it is not always the case but pretty close. But in the end the company makes maybe 2% after all the bills are payed. Please don't bash the LPS before you understand all the facts. Sure some of them dont exercise good practices but they would be out of business very soon in this economy if that were true. My dad is a Marine and owns this store too so give him some respect and stop the bashing. Thanks

[wabio]

I can't speak for other members, but the cost of fixed goods (tank, pumps, etc.) wouldn't drive me out of the hobby. I don't have a problem paying $70 for a fish, or $300 for a powerhead.

I'm more concerned with revolving expenses. And there's one revolving cost that would probably finish me. Electricity. Like gasoline, I about through a fit everytime I see my bill. Seriously, if electricity costs were to double....I think I'd have to downgrade to a nanocube.

[wabio]

I can't speak for the LFS business per se. But Chefer is right. The cost of doing business is ridiculous.

To re-roof your house might cost you $10-20K. To re-roof your store with the same square footage might be double or triple. Need a laser printer for your home? Drive down to BB and buy it for $600. Need one for your office? Order it through an office catalog for $1000+.