Why does reef crystals only have 320 Ca?

[DiazE]

I just found this link; I hope it helps solve the problem of the low calcium in Reef Crystals.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...6#post11433986

[acrylic_300]

I'm still confused about what is happening here. It is narrowed down to DFS.

Some are complaining of buckets not being sealed properly...is it a bad batch or what?

It would have to be a really big batch to range from Aug. to Dec.

[Boomer]

Thanks for that DiazE

[DiazE]

I made my claim thanks to the link, and my 2 replacement buckets are on there way. I am hoping it was just a mixup with IO and RC in their buckets and not that they are making false high calcium claims.

[DiazE]

Originally posted by Boomer
Thanks for that DiazE

Happy to be of any help!

[Mr. Ugly]

Ok, I just tested some RC that I got in January. Newly opened bucket and it's showing 350ppm Ca.

Couldn't test Mg because I burned through the last of my Mg tests and the LFS's are out of stock.

[Mr. Ugly]

Ok, another January bucket at 360ppm Ca.

And a November bucket at 355ppm Ca.

[DB06]

I mixed up a batch about two weeks ago and it measured 400 ppm for Ca. However, Alk was 14. Used Salifert kits for each measure. From what I have read on RC, appears RC ususally runs high on the Alk. BTW, salt is from DFS.

[Mr. Ugly]

I always get 3.7meq/L or 10.4 dKH.

I made 4 1 gallon samples from new buckets yesterday for testing Ca. I dumped them all together into an empty bucket after I was done.

I justed tested the combined batch with a Salifert kit.

3.7meq/L again.

[wingmans10]

all this talk of low cal had me worried so I tested my new batch that has been mixing in a 35g trash can for a fiew days. API test kit came up with 460. Mixed to 1.026 with a hydrometer. RC came out of bags and transfered into an old IO bucket.

[Billybeau1]

Well, here we go again.

I consistently get 420 ppm calcium from RC. For many years.

I guess I'll purchase a bucket of RC from the good Drs. and test it myself. I'll post results as soon as they are available.

As most of you know, I recently picked up a bag of RC at an LFS and it was 420 as usual.

BTW - Alk readings at 1.026 should be around 12-13 dkh. Same as Instant Ocean. This is by design.

Also BTW - I do not buy their reply in the other thread that the whole bucket has to be mixed. That was a terrible response IMO. I've always gotten 420 or so from RC.

I'll order my bucket tonight.

[Billybeau1]

O.K. just placed my order. I also orderd a small box of TM and TM Pro. Been dying to test them as I have tested most others.

You all enjoy the holidays and we'll talk about this next week.

Happy Holidays to all.

[Mr. Ugly]

Originally posted by Billybeau1
As most of you know, I recently picked up a bag of RC at an LFS and it was 420 as usual.

The buckets that I was getting from my LFS prior to the DFS buckets read 420 also.

[Mike O'Brien]

The numbers you get are not important to those with low numbers, Billy. Or high ones for that matter. Yours is not the final word. Whatever you may think.

Obviously with all the people that posted in this thread there is a problem with consistency.

[bdare]

Originally posted by Mike O'Brien
The numbers you get are not important to those with low numbers, Billy. Or high ones for that matter. Yours is not the final word. Whatever you may think.

Obviously with all the people that posted in this thread there is a problem with consistency.

Thanks for stating what I didn't have the LR rubble to say.

[MO Will]

Maybe someone with abad batch should send some to Billy so he can test it. That might make him a believer

[Billybeau1]

Originally posted by Mike O'Brien
The numbers you get are not important to those with low numbers, Billy. Or high ones for that matter. Yours is not the final word. Whatever you may think.

Obviously with all the people that posted in this thread there is a problem with consistency.

Mike, I'm afraid I disagree.

You say "all the people that posted in this thread" Just how many is that ?

And how many is that compared to the thousands of people on Reef Central that are using Reef Crystals and not having problems ?

I spend a lot of my time and money trying to help fellow reefers figure out chemical issues with products and testing supplies. I do this because I enjoy helping out and for as much water testing I have done over the years, I'd like to think the numbers I post are pretty close to real.

Threads like this come along all the time and in many cases, the issue is with testing of some sort and not the actual product itself.

In the 8 years I've been here, I can only remember one salt manufacturing issue and that was the low alk Seachem fiasco awhile back.

I hope you didn't take Boomers recent comments about me seriously. I have no affiliation with Marineland and I do not own stock in Reef Crystals. He was joking with me, as he does from time to time. We are friends.

I simply want to see this for myself since a number of people are seeing problems and it all seems to be coming from the same place, I'm hoping to shed some light on the situation. I am not satisfied with the response one of our members got from Drs Foster & Smith.

Whether you choose to believe my findings or not is up to you. I'm quite sure a number of our members are interested in what I come up with.

Personally, I did not care for your comment or bdare's for that matter. You seem to have been jumping on a number of my posts as of late.

Just because a few people reported a calcium problem with a salt mix doesn't necessarily mean that salt mix has consistency issues. It very well could be a bad batch problem, or a moisture problem, or a mixing problem or a testing problem. I prefer to find the real cause of the problem before we all go and point fingers and accuse manufacturers of a bad product. This has happened too many times in the past in our hobby.

Are you doing anything to help figure out this problem ? If not, I suggest you post in a thread where you can be of some help.

[mksalt]

Hip check hard into the boards! Ouch!

Bill, I look forward to see what you come up with when you get your DFS shipment.

[bdare]

Originally posted by Billybeau1
Mike, I'm afraid I disagree.

You say "all the people that posted in this thread" Just how many is that ?

And how many is that compared to the thousands of people on Reef Central that are using Reef Crystals and not having problems ?

I spend a lot of my time and money trying to help fellow reefers figure out chemical issues with products and testing supplies. I do this because I enjoy helping out and for as much water testing I have done over the years, I'd like to think the numbers I post are pretty close to real.

Threads like this come along all the time and in many cases, the issue is with testing of some sort and not the actual product itself.

In the 8 years I've been here, I can only remember one salt manufacturing issue and that was the low alk Seachem fiasco awhile back.

I hope you didn't take Boomers recent comments about me seriously. I have no affiliation with Marineland and I do not own stock in Reef Crystals. He was joking with me, as he does from time to time. We are friends.

I simply want to see this for myself since a number of people are seeing problems and it all seems to be coming from the same place, I'm hoping to shed some light on the situation. I am not satisfied with the response one of our members got from Drs Foster & Smith.

Whether you choose to believe my findings or not is up to you. I'm quite sure a number of our members are interested in what I come up with.

Personally, I did not care for your comment or bdare's for that matter. You seem to have been jumping on a number of my posts as of late.

Just because a few people reported a calcium problem with a salt mix doesn't necessarily mean that salt mix has consistency issues. It very well could be a bad batch problem, or a moisture problem, or a mixing problem or a testing problem. I prefer to find the real cause of the problem before we all go and point fingers and accuse manufacturers of a bad product. This has happened too many times in the past in our hobby.

Are you doing anything to help figure out this problem ? If not, I suggest you post in a thread where you can be of some help.

I think the problem here is you are attempting to tell those of us with low number either we are crazy or just don't know how to test water. I've been doing this for a long time. The Ca in the Reef Crystals I have is 360. PERIOD.

Just because you order a bucket from the good Drs and you test your water at 420 isn't going to prove anything. I'm sure they get new salt in all the time. Unless you test the salt from someone who is reporting the low numbers you are simply reporting the results from YOUR bucket.

I'll gladly send you 1/2 cup of salt for you to test.

The reason people are jumping all over you is because as I stated before... you are either telling us we are crazy or incapable of testing our water.

[Mike O'Brien]

Originally posted by Billybeau1
Mike, I'm afraid I disagree.

You say "all the people that posted in this thread" Just how many is that ?
That would be 15

And how many is that compared to the thousands of people on Reef Central that are using Reef Crystals and not having problems ?
Not many, but that does not matter. How many of them actually test anyway ?

I spend a lot of my time and money trying to help fellow reefers figure out chemical issues with products and testing supplies. I do this because I enjoy helping out and for as much water testing I have done over the years, I'd like to think the numbers I post are pretty close to real.
I don't doubt you

Threads like this come along all the time and in many cases, the issue is with testing of some sort and not the actual product itself.
]I agree, but that's not always the problem. Many of us have done all we could to ensure accurate results. Like correctly calibrating our refractometers and using multiple test kits

In the 8 years I've been here, I can only remember one salt manufacturing issue and that was the low alk Seachem fiasco awhile back.

I hope you didn't take Boomers recent comments about me seriously. I have no affiliation with Marineland and I do not own stock in Reef Crystals. He was joking with me, as he does from time to time. We are friends.
No, not that it would matter to me.

I simply want to see this for myself since a number of people are seeing problems and it all seems to be coming from the same place, I'm hoping to shed some light on the situation. I am not satisfied with the response one of our members got from Drs Foster & Smith.
I want that too. That's my point. But IMO it's not really their problem. I'm sure they ship out a lot of buckets. They are just trying to keep their customers satisfied by replacing the buckets.

Whether you choose to believe my findings or not is up to you. I'm quite sure a number of our members are interested in what I come up with.
I totally believe you. I credit the members of this particular forum with enough smarts to use a test kit correctly. How your findings make ours wrong is where I don't agree.

Personally, I did not care for your comment or bdare's for that matter. You seem to have been jumping on a number of my posts as of late.
In this thread, yes. Elswhere, I don't believe I did anything.

Just because a few people reported a calcium problem with a salt mix doesn't necessarily mean that salt mix has consistency issues. It very well could be a bad batch problem, or a moisture problem, or a mixing problem or a testing problem. I prefer to find the real cause of the problem before we all go and point fingers and accuse manufacturers of a bad product. This has happened too many times in the past in our hobby.
If we though it was a bad product, we wouldn't be using it. IMO a bad batch is a consistiency problem. We get thing done in this hobby by threads like this. These forums are R&D for companies like Marineland.

Are you doing anything to help figure out this problem ? If not, I suggest you post in a thread where you can be of some help.

Yep, I tell who I can to test their makeup water before adding it to the tank and adjust it as necissary.

[2thdeekay]

Originally posted by Billybeau1
I will bet your swing arm is off. You are likely mixing at a lower s.g. than you think, causing the low calcium reading.

I tested a new batch of RC just the other day and at 1.0264 (35 ppt) it registered 420ppm calcium. As it always does.

Those of you seeing other readings are either mixing wrong or have faulty test kits IMO.

I appreciate everyones input here. I'd hope that everyone's Ca and Alk posted readings would be properly considered, as this is just a public forum.

Personally, I don't think one person is enough proof that numerous posted measurements are erroneous, even if it's a possibility. I agree with Billybeau1 & others, that this should be properly evaluated to find out what's been happening.

I doubt there is a conspiracy against the salt mfr going on here.

[2thdeekay]

An open mind is best for scientific discovery. Better than ego's or dogma. Perhaps even better with a touch of humility.

[Billybeau1]

Originally posted by Mike O'Brien
The numbers you get are not important to those with low numbers, Billy. Or high ones for that matter. Yours is not the final word. Whatever you may think.

Obviously with all the people that posted in this thread there is a problem with consistency.

Well I'm not going to publicly squabble about your reply although I disagree with a number of your replies. I just found your quote above a jab. I know of no one on Reef Central that thinks anyones post is the "final word" on anything in this hobby. Not even Randy's and I'm sure he'll agree to that. I merely test a lot and post my results.

As you know, testing saltwater has a lot of variables, especially with hobby grade test kits and it is easy to get confused about test results at times.

When you have time, re-read the whole thread from start to finish. Then evaluate your comments. I did that about an hour ago and I see a comment I made that could possibly be construed as offensive. Not my intent or never will it be. Sometimes when threads get real long like this, we tend to loose focus on the original posters question.

We'll get to the bottom of this, collectively , I'm sure. Thats what makes this the best Reef Chemistry forum on the web.

[Billybeau1]

Originally posted by bdare
I think the problem here is you are attempting to tell those of us with low number either we are crazy or just don't know how to test water. I've been doing this for a long time. The Ca in the Reef Crystals I have is 360. PERIOD.

Just because you order a bucket from the good Drs and you test your water at 420 isn't going to prove anything. I'm sure they get new salt in all the time. Unless you test the salt from someone who is reporting the low numbers you are simply reporting the results from YOUR bucket.

I'll gladly send you 1/2 cup of salt for you to test.

The reason people are jumping all over you is because as I stated before... you are either telling us we are crazy or incapable of testing our water.

Well first off, people aren't jumping all over me as you state. What people ? 2 people ?

Sending me a sample of your salt is useless. You should know that.

Unless I have a bad memory, I don't recall calling anyone crazy for posting their test results. There are many reasons for not seeing expected results from a salt mix. Not just user error.

We deal with all levels of aquarists on this forum and I have no idea what level of experience they have. Sometimes you have to ask the obvious questions to get the simple answers. My intent is not to make them look foolish. My intent is to help them solve their problem. When dealing with water chemistry, many of us assume the reefer has the proper knowledge to deal with these issues. Believe me, many times, this is not the case.

I suspect you need to spend a little more time around here reading threads to understand what I'm talking about.

[bertoni]

All right, let's leave the squabbling to some other channel. This forum is for chemistry questions.