saltwaterfish.com

justin1977justi · #1 08/11/2006, 10:31 AM

I ordered some live goods from them on Monday August 7th at 9 am. On wednesday my order status finally changed from pending to processing. They took the money out of my account also. Then thursday it showed as pending again. I got an email saying that I had saying I had special instructions. The instructions were that the anemone I ordered was out of stock so I have tried to cancel my order. The phone # that shows up for them in my bank statement is disconected. I added instructions on my order summary to cancel my order and have emailed them telling them to cancel it. So far it is still showing as canceled. They also still have my money which should not have been taken out of my account until the order shipped. I ended up ordering my stuff from Marine Depot Live on Thursday August 10 and recieved it Today. It took 1 day to get it to me but it took 3 days for Saltaterfish.com to even look at my order. By the way, I have not gotten a response to my email yet either. I will never do business with that compant ever again. They are worthless.

Norm R · #2 08/11/2006, 11:12 AM

I feel your pain Justin. I've had terrible experiences with swf.com. I attempted the e-mail contact to resolve my issues until they blocked my ability to send e-mail to them. I suggest filing a report with the BBB down there. If enough of us do it...

http://www.bbbsoutheastflorida.org/

http://www.bbbsoutheastflorida.org/n...h%2Ecom%2C+Inc

The Grim Reefer · #3 08/11/2006, 09:45 PM

Each person having issues should start a thread on their board about it. The threads will be removed but hopefully they will get the idea they need to clean up their act.

rocklymber · #4 08/11/2006, 10:12 PM

I also received 'customer service' from swf.com, and I must say, I'd be out of business if my employees handled things the way they do. Even though they have the best prices, I will NEVER order from them again.

gibson981 · #5 08/12/2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7923724#post7923724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
Each person having issues should start a thread on their board about it. The threads will be removed but hopefully they will get the idea they need to clean up their act.

Grim Reefer,
Right on! I had that very same idea when my order wasn't shipped out when they said it would be. The moderators said they moved my post to an area where someone would see it who could help me. Then, I tried to start another thread and found that they blocked my ability to start a new thread or post in another thread. So, I registered again with a slightly different user name and I posted another thread when part of my order was missing. I looked for that post a few hours later and it was nowhere to be found. So, I have been posting in other peoples threads about my bad experience with them. I hate to highjack other people's threads, but people need to know.

diverdan814 · #6 08/12/2006, 11:46 AM

If they paid as much attention to customer service as they did to deleting negative messages on their message board they might retain some customers.

mrongi1 · #7 08/12/2006, 09:26 PM

I have had pretty good experiences as far as quality of fish, corals, and inverts. I however have to agree that their costomer service isn't the best. I have tried to contact them before about an oder and they didn't reply. But they have pretty good prices, and free shipping which every one knows is a great plus.

gibson981 · #8 08/12/2006, 09:50 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7928537#post7928537 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mrongi1
I have had pretty good experiences as far as quality of fish, corals, and inverts. I however have to agree that their costomer service isn't the best. I have tried to contact them before about an oder and they didn't reply. But they have pretty good prices, and free shipping which every one knows is a great plus.

I guess I would rather pay a little bit more in order to deal with a company that provides customer service.

teen · #9 08/12/2006, 10:02 PM

i always have great experiences with them. there stuff is always better than i expect. id never shop anywhere else on the internet.

Texas Reef · #10 08/12/2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7928752#post7928752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teen
i always have great experiences with them. there stuff is always better than i expect. id never shop anywhere else on the internet.

Same here.

teen · #11 08/12/2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7923724#post7923724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
Each person having issues should start a thread on their board about it. The threads will be removed but hopefully they will get the idea they need to clean up their act.

we can just as easily come over hear and start a thread about how great our experiences have been with swf.com

and ive contacted them a umber of times and got replys back. there customer service was fine imo.

crpeck · #12 08/13/2006, 01:39 AM

Another happy SWF customer here, although it's been a year or so since I ordered from them.

They were my very first reef online order in fact .... my cleanup crew when I set up the tank. Very hardy stock .... my banded coral shrimp and some of my snails from them are 3 years old now.

Sorry you had trouble with them. I hope there is a good reason when you do hear from them.

Norm R · #13 08/13/2006, 06:43 AM

I'm glad others have had better experiences but if you keep ordering from them, unfortunately your time will come. The frequency of bad experiences posted on this board is a good reflection of their practices. There are too many other reputable online vendors to mess with these jokers. They are an embarassment to the hobby.

rmougey · #14 08/13/2006, 09:59 AM

Spend your money wisely by supporting vendors who care about their animals and customer service. There are plenty of quality LFS and on-line retailers out there, no need to support these folks.

-Rob

gibson981 · #15 08/13/2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7928752#post7928752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teen
i always have great experiences with them. there stuff is always better than i expect. id never shop anywhere else on the internet.

Most people who have a problem with them don't have a problem with the quality of the products. It the customer service or lack thereof that they have a problem with.

gibson981 · #16 08/13/2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7929688#post7929688 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crpeck
Another happy SWF customer here, although it's been a year or so since I ordered from them.

They were my very first reef online order in fact .... my cleanup crew when I set up the tank. Very hardy stock .... my banded coral shrimp and some of my snails from them are 3 years old now.

Sorry you had trouble with them. I hope there is a good reason when you do hear from them.

Perhaps the fact that some of your specimens are 3 years old now is due to you being a caring and responsible reef keeper and not the quality of customer service from Saltwaterfish.com. I hope that you have continued success with your reef tank.

reefing102 · #17 08/13/2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7926117#post7926117 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by diverdan814
If they paid as much attention to customer service as they did to deleting negative messages on their message board they might retain some customers.

actually they don't view there message boards, they are run by others who when they find the negative feedback they remove it and send it to the right people via email, and then those guys are supposed to do something about it

crpeck · #18 08/13/2006, 08:35 PM

Okay .... the the only complaint is their customer service. Their prices are exceptionally low and their livestock is healthy. It sounds like you want Saltwaterfish prices with Marine Depot service. That would be awesome, but economically that's hard to support.

I remember one of the times I dealt with them, they asked you not to call unless you had to. The way they keep their prices down is by hiring fewer people. They were very upfront in emails that they don't pay to staff a phone.

I'm an accountant and I know how businesses struggle. When there is a business out there doing their best to deliver a wide variety of healthy livestock at prices that more reefers can afford, and manage to do so well enough to keep at least enough customers happy to stay in business I really hate to see people try and destroy that business because they had one bad experience. The internet is SO powerful that way .... you have to think about the fact that you're attacking someone's livlihood so you'd better be sure you've got the whole story.

Don't do business with them if you don't want to. By all means, tell people you had a bad experience with customer service so that people who value customer service know that it might be a problem with this vendor. People who are willing to do without the customer service to save some money might still like to buy there.

To gang up and try to drum somebody out of business and say they "don't care about their animals" when not one person has given an instance of sick or neglected livestock being delivered is kind of brutal I think.

rocklymber · #19 08/13/2006, 11:09 PM

They sent me 3 MALE lyretail anthias, with NO regard to the fact that of the three, only one was likely to survive. When I enquired why they sent me three males, I was told, in no uncertain terms, that female lyretail anthias are called 'blue eyed anthias' and if I wanted females, I should have ordered those (which were NOT available on the site when I placed my order).
I'd say this constitutes as a lack of regard for the marine animals they sell. I am not ganging up, or trying to drum anyone out of business. When I sent an email about the anthias, I received a very rude response, and haven't been able to get them to remove me from their mailing list since.
I'd say that sums it up. I'm not asking for them to spend more money. I'm asking that they hire people who know what 'customer service' means.

The Grim Reefer · #20 08/13/2006, 11:53 PM

I was one of several people who posted here and on SWF's board about snails that arrived DOA. In my case it was 7 snails. I was more interested to find out if they had some kind of a disease in the tank than getting money back for the dumb snails. After 3 days I finally got a response that was a canned blurb about snails taking a long time to become active after being transplanted to a new tank. I e-mailed back and they never responded.

As far as I know none of the others ever got a real answer either. Why anyone would want to do business with a company like that I don't know but to each his own I guess.

Norm R · #21 08/14/2006, 12:04 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted</a> by crpeck
Okay .... the the only complaint is their customer service. Their prices are exceptionally low and their livestock is healthy. It sounds like you want Saltwaterfish prices with Marine Depot service. That would be awesome, but economically that's hard to support.[QUOTE]

Personally I just want what they advertise. Low prices and administration of their policies as they state them. The low prices are suddenly not so low when they refuse to honor their guarantee policies and absorb a ton of the customer's time trying to get resolution.

[QUOTE]I remember one of the times I dealt with them, they asked you not to call unless you had to. The way they keep their prices down is by hiring fewer people. They were very upfront in emails that they don't pay to staff a phone. [QUOTE]

This sounds good in theory but if you have an issue it is not practical because they also cut costs by either A) not responding to e-mails or B) blocking the customer from sending them e-mails - I've experienced both. Are they upfront about this???

[QUOTE] I'm an accountant and I know how businesses struggle. When there is a business out there doing their best to deliver a wide variety of healthy livestock at prices that more reefers can afford, and manage to do so well enough to keep at least enough customers happy to stay in business I really hate to see people try and destroy that business because they had one bad experience. The internet is SO powerful that way .... you have to think about the fact that you're attacking someone's livlihood so you'd better be sure you've got the whole story. [Quote]

In my book, the thought of a business "struggling" does not give them the right to take advantage of customers, period. The point you are missing about this company is that many, many people have had one or MORE than one bad experience with them. This isn't just an issue of poor customer service, they blatantly refuse to follow their own stated policies.

When they refuse to honor their stated policies, I consider them attacking MY livlihood. Please don't diminish the horrible experiences many of us have had with this company. It's great your experience was positive but you don't have the "full story" on what others have experienced.

Yes, the internet is powerful in "that way". It's also powerful in that it allows shady vendors a vehicle to rake customers over the coals with little recourse. Case in point, swf.com.

Quote:

To gang up and try to drum somebody out of business and say they "don't care about their animals" when not one person has given an instance of sick or neglected livestock being delivered is kind of brutal I think.

The appearance that there are enough of us to "gang up" on them is a pretty good indication of how many unhappy swf customers there are on this board. As far as sick and unhealthy animals, this is exactly what many of us have tried to resolve with them in the first place, only to be ignored.

Here is a link to my experience, there are many more if you look back in this forum.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=808659

crpeck · #22 08/14/2006, 02:18 PM

I'm not going to the wall to defend them because I've only bought from them 3 times and don't know them at all. I can only say that those three orders went smoothly and I certainly recognize that it could happen otherwise. I can't tell exactly which posters have first hand experiences on this thread, but it looks like 4 people are posting bad experiences ... even awful ones and 4 have said they have had good experiences. If that's representative, 50% is a pretty bad customer satisfaction ratio.

It's true that you never know how good or bad a vendor is until you've had a problem to see how they handle things and whether they try to work it out. I don't discount that your experience with them has been awful and it is disturbing that they haven't been more responsive trying to fix things.

What I meant by the internet being powerful that way is how damaging one screw up can be to business when it gets broadcast on line. When you walk into a brick and mortar store, you have no idea how many unhappy customers have walked out before you. You can only judge a store by your own experience and word of mouth from your friends. Over time, a bad store will go out of business as more and more people don't come back or ..... they have an opportunity to clean up their act first.

For an internet store, EVERY screw up gets publicized. eBay has feedback, there are forums like this for almost every hobby and there are numerous shopping rating companies out there. Human nature is to make sure the world is told if there is a problem, but how many people take the time to leave positive feedback or go out of their way to rave when a store has done a good job? Certainly not as many as the ones who will speak up when there is a problem.

An internet store can do great 9/10 times and one bad employee that ticks off some customers can put you out of business before you even knew what hit you. I'm not saying swf is great... I don't know. I was only saying that an attack has more power over the internet and that I hoped you were being fair and reasonable attacking as hard as you were and had made the effort to find out if there was a legitimate reason for the problem before you hammered them.

A couple of years back on RC there was a guy with a small internet coral business that was particularly known for nice ricordea. It was a family run thing and the guy did a good job. All of a sudden there were BIG attacks on RC accusing the guy of ripping someone off. It got really ugly with all kinds of people who had never even ordered from him jumping in and calling him a crook based on just the facts they got from the one guy who had never gotten his order or a refund.

Turns out that the vendor had experienced a BIG family health emergency that would have sidelined anyone. By the time he was able to even come back and try to make things right in his business, he was totally screwed and there was no coming back. He sold out and was done. I just thought that was really sad.

So I guess, when I read all this here, it just seemed like dejavu and I couldn't help but wonder if y'all had made sure you'd given them a fair shot to resolve their mistakes before you hit them that hard. Clearly you feel that you have .... so I really don't have anything else to say.

Like I said ... I'm not going to take a stand to defend them because I don't know. I didn't mean to "demean" your bad experience. It just seemed like anyone who tried to speak up that they had a good experience got an answer from gibson981 discounting the positive vote as meaningless in some way. That and the vehemence of the attack without any bit of another side from swf just smacked of lynch mob to me and I couldn't resist just asking you all to consider that there might be more to it.

But bottom line is that I don't know either so go ahead and blast them away if you feel its the right thing to do.

Norm R · #23 08/14/2006, 03:57 PM

crpeck, I agree with much of what you said. This place is just THAT bad. Consequently, some of us who have experienced it first hand are more than a little passionate on the topic.

The Grim Reefer · #24 08/14/2006, 05:14 PM

The snail episode wasn't the only roblem I had with them. Had a DOA in an order and e-mailed them about it because I didn't get any information with the shipment. I got a snotty e-mail back about follwing the instructions i receieved with the shipment. Hello, what part of I DIDN'T RECEIVE ANY INFORMATION WITH THE SHIPMENT didn;'t they understand?

I've ordered tank cleaners from them a couple times and everything was fine. I figured with the DOA I'd just grin and bare it but when I had the snail issues with the very next order, and others were as well I gave up on them.

rocklymber · #25 08/14/2006, 06:53 PM

I DID make an attempt to contact them, and gave them every opportunity to make things right with me. I received one rude response, then nothing. Well, nothing except their junk mail. Which I still receive. Despite several requests that I be removed from their mailing list.
I also make it a point to praise as openly as I critisize. There are some online vendors that have earned my custom for life, just because of excellent service.
Online vendors, while they are more susceptible to criticism, also have the luxury of reaching FAR more people than a brick and mortar shop can. So, the percentages balance out.
Also, I DO resent the fact that you consistently mock our complaints by calling them 'blasts' at the vendor. These are not 'blasts'. For the most part, what I've read here are well thought out reviews of the service that many people have received from swf.com. If you had a great customer service experience with them, by all means, say so. If you've never had occasion to warrant receiving any actual customer service, say that too.
This portion of this message board is designed for the purpose of posting one's experiences with online vendors. What we are doing is just that.
Your detailing the hardships of the gentleman with the ricordea is not comparable to this situation because obviously that was a situation that snowballed and escalated very quickly. SWF.com has been building their bad reputaion for poor customer service over quite some time. Most of the folks here have done their due dilligence to make attempts at rectifying the situation with the vendor before 'blasting' them here. Most, myself included, either received a rude response, or worse, NO response, or even worse than that, were ignored and then their complaints were refused. I'd say that warrants a little venting, but no one has even done that.
People will do whatever they wish with their money. People will continue to order from swf.com, because they ARE cheap, and they do offer free shipping (at almost $20 a pop). This just offers those people a chance to make an educated decision as to what company they order from.
I, for one, choose to support vendors (local and online) who have earned my trust, and with that, my money.
I'm not trying to be argumentative or defensive, I just don't think it's fair for you to defend this vendor by telling us that what we're doing, what the forum was designed for, is fair to us or this or other vendors.