Need advice pljease...

[92reefer]

I posted a little while ago and got no help. What the heck. I'm new to the reefing hobby. Aren't I posting in the right area?

Anyway, I have a 92 gallon with about 3 inches of Southdown and a Berlin skimmer.

All my parameter are good but I cannot even keep a yellow polyp rock alive. What the heck! I am very frustrated!!

I invested in a good RO/DI to keep the water very clean and nutrient free but my live rock is covered in Green Hair algae and I have to keep the photo-period to an absolute minimum or the stuff completey takes over. Even at that, I have more hair algae than I can deal with. I added an emerald and sally lightfoot crab but they do not make a significant difference.

What the heck am I doing wrong. Something must be out of whack.

Next step was to buy Magnesium and Phosphate test kits. OK, here are the parameters. Somebody please help me out here...

AMM, NIT and NITRATE all at 0
PH around 8.0
Phosphate (Salifert) 0 I mean didn't even register

Magnesium (Salifert) 1125
Have trouble keeping CA and DKH up and was wondering if this might me my problem. After dosing for two days with ESV Magnesium, I stopped. The yellow polyps totally retracted and look like they are dead!!!! ***!

Temp 80-81 degrees

Salinity 1.025

----------------------------

OK, there are the parameters, Please...can someone tell what I'm doing wrong here??

[glaudds]

What type of lighting do you currently have? What is your current livestock and feeding regimen?

[92reefer]

Only have 1 small tang in tank. I feed about 6 flakes a day and a few drops of Spectrum marine food for the crabs and blue legged hermits.

I am running a PFO 175 watt 10K metal halide and 2 PC 55W actinics. Because of the algae problem I am only running the halide about 2 hours per day and the actinics 8 hours. If I increase the lighting much more the algae grows even more!

[JDS]

Do you have any live rock. What about a cleaning crew of some sort. How is the current in the tank. Did you ever treated tank with some form of copper. I personally believe the less additives you put in the tank the better. Also how old is the tank.

[glaudds]

Hair algae growth is usually in response to high nutrient levels (nitrate, phosphate, and silicate). Most of the nitrate comes from the overfeeding of the tank (although that doesn't seem to be the case in your tank). However, the liquid invertebrate food is not necessary IMO. Your crabs will feed off of the leftover food and the natural production of detritus/plankton in your tank. That's what they're there for.

Though you may be getting zero readings nit/ammonia in the water, there can still nitrogen locked in your system in the form of cyanobacteria, detritus, and algae. If you can take out your LR and scrub and rinse the hair algae off in a bucket of saltwater, that would go a long way in exporting the nutrients out of your tank. Blasting your remaining rock with a baster, doing a good water change, and providing lots of water movement will also help the situation.

Dosing with Kalk may address your CA/alk problems. That's a whole another post. In addition it will help precipitate the phospate from the water which may help with the hair algae problem.

As far as your yellow polyps retracting, could it be you tang nipping at them? Not sure what the problem could be. Providing them with good water motion may help.

I agree with JDS as far a not putting any additives to the tank. Periodic water changes with a good quality salt are enough to maintain the trace elements in your tank.

HTH

[wishmaster]

If you only have a couple crabs for a clean up crew Id venture a guess as thats your problem. Get yourself about 20 or so snails varing in types, ie nassarius, astrea, turbo etc. That should make a huge impact on your hair algae problem.

[92reefer]

To help with some of the other questions:

Tank was converted from Fish only about 14 months ago. Was about 2 years old then. Never ran copper in the tank. Added 90 pounds of live rock and was doing great till about last August when tank seemed to crash, lost 2 beginner corals and have been trying to restore tank since then. At that time I had a few fish and about 20 astreas snails. All had died one by one.

Major water changes and several months later trying to re-establish the tank. Hair algaie covers most of the rock but some corraline exists. Am I wrong in using ESV two part to maintain the ALK/CA. I am currently dosing about 10ml a day; don't want to overdose.

I'm really shying away from adding more snails. I add them but they eventually die.....

What can I do if there is trapped detritus etc. The only things that survive are the 2 crabs. Even the blue legged hermits eventually disappear one by one.. they don't even munch on the hair algae.

I am using Tropic Marin salt (for last 10 years). Does this salt have enough essential trace elelments. Reason I ask is that I have read low MAG levels can give you trouble maintaining ALK/CA and my salfiert kit registers MAG at 1100 which I think is low. This is supposed to be closest thing to real sea water per Tropic Marin which should read about 1300-1500??? If it truly is missing, I was thinking of switching to Reef Crystals??

On the agenda, major water change again? I am getting tired of this and it is very costly. Worst part is it's impact doesn't seem to last but a couple of weeks!!!

Next steps anyone??

[JDS]

I'm kinda at a loss for you. Your water parameters seem to be fine. So the only other thing to look at that might be causing your problems might be the crabs. Maybe if your not to attach to them you might want to get rid of them and start all over with more types of snails and worms to help out your sand bed. Because it's possible year crabs might be the culprit.

[jackson6745]

Try an alage blenny and stop using that spectrum stuff.
As for the yellow polyps, I only had luck with them (long term) if they were fed directly with brine shrimp or used Phytoplankton to feed the whole tank

[92reefer]

OK:

I'm with you on starting over. Almost all of the blue legs are gone. I'm going to do a large water change (about 40 gals of 92) and try to siphon/scrape off as much of the hair algae as I can.

Then add more snails and maybe a detrivore kit??

Guys, still safe to dose daily with the ESV 2-part right?

Anything else I should do or add?

[aquaman67]

Why are you dosing? Your salt mix should be all you need for now. When things are going wrong, less is more...

[aquaman67]

Forgive me if I missed it but what exactly is your alk and what test kit are you using?

If all you have a is LR and fish, calcium is not something to worry about because nothing is really using it. Dosing is for when you have something taking it out of your system. Water changes should be enough for now.

I mean, what if your test kit is wrong or way off, you could just be chasing numbers and making it worse. Take a water sample to someone you trust to check it. It might be worth it.

[92reefer]

I have been using Salifert brand for all tests including ALK/CA. I have had a problem keeping the Alk and CA up. Current readings are 7.2 ALK an 310 CA. That is why I have been dosing. I am also trying to keep what little corraline left on the live rock going...

Is that wrong.....?

[aquaman67]

7.2 is that dKH or meq/L? That's low for one and high for the other.

http://www.ozreef.org/reference/alka...onversion.html

I wouldn't say wrong, all I was tying to say is when things are going wrong, you need to narrow down the possibilities. If you are adding something you don't need, you may just be adding to the problem.

There are buffers you can add the raise the alk and nothing else, one is made by Seachem. Your pH is a little low too. Seachem also makes a buffer to raise pH and alk. Or you can use baking soda and washing soda. There is a formula on here if you want to da a search for it. It's a really cheap way to go!

Did you measure pH in the morning or just before lights out? It will be it's highest in the evening.

Also, your sand bed is a little shallow...it should be closer to 6 inches. I don't think that is a factor at this point, something else is going on.

I wish I could help, but I'm at a loss.

The only other thing I can think of is stray voltage. It has caused people problems...but that's a stretch.

[trig]

What size of skimmer do you have ? I had an award wining tank of hair alge, to the point my clown would just find a nice spot on whatever rock and lay down for the night.

I then put the prizm where it belongs(not on a tank) and got a southbay 6-1

1 week after almost all/all the hair alge is GONE, but i am getting massive diatom bloom, but its a step in the right direction.

I got so tired of takeing rocks out that i just scraped them in the tank and made current to stir all the 'stuff' up, then go after it with a fine mesh net, and this also brings this stuff to the skimmer.

[92reefer]

ALK is 7.2 DKH and my skimmer is a Berlin XL (non turbo design)

[92reefer]

OH, forgot to add that I have a Grounding probe connected to the sump to take out stray voltage and I always make my test readings in the AM before the lights go on.....

[areeferitis1]

What kind of substrate are you using? Is it Oolitic sand? Did you get this at a LFS? I don't want to insult your intelligence, but do not use playsand it is high in silicates.

[92reefer]

No problem;

I had CC but took that out before converting to the reed system. I then added about 3 inches of Southdown sand.....

[JDS]

would just like to clarify something the use of silica is totally acceptable.

[92reefer]

OK,

I'm thiking maybe my skimmer is undersize or inadequate. I am running the Red Sea Original Berlin XL with a MAG 7.

I have been dosing ESV 2 part because my ALK and CA have been 7.2 and ~ 310 respectively. I think everyone would agree that both are low. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the skimmer but what I cannot understand is why these levels don't return to an acceptable range when I do a major water change; 60 gal of 92??

Is Tropic Marin salt low in some of these trace elements and could that be the cause of the low readings??

Oh, one more question. I have a wet-dry trickle filter left over from when it was a fish-only tank. On this boards recommendation I removed about 30% of the bio-bale and things went bizurk!!! That was about 3 months ago. Should I remove the remaining bio-bale (string) and do a large water change?

[glaudds]

Oh, one more question. I have a wet-dry trickle filter left over from when it was a fish-only tank. On this boards recommendation I removed about 30% of the bio-bale and things went bizurk!!! That was about 3 months ago. Should I remove the remaining bio-bale (string) and do a large water change?

IMO I would remove the rest of the bio balls. They're pumping out nitrates which are could be fueling your hair algae growth. Since you only have one tang currently in your tank, your LR and sand should be able to handle the biologic filtration at this time.

Is Tropic Marin salt low in some of these trace elements and could that be the cause of the low readings??

No experience with Tropic Marin. Many people on this board have had success w/ Instant Ocean however.

HTH

[92reefer]

Update:

Removed all my bio-bale (overwhelming advice on this board to get rid of it). Did a major water change and replaced 32 of 92 gallons. Left replacement salinity a little lower cause my overall tank salinity was approaching 1.026 to 27!

Scrubbed off as much hair algae on rocks and side of glass as good as I could (messy tank!). Also added a little more Southdown sand on substrate.

Let everything re-cover and the tank clear up overnight....

New readings:

Salinity 1.024
Amm, Nitrite and Nitrate all near 0
Ph 8.0
Alk 8.0
CA 300

MAG 990

P04 0

OK, what the heck am I going to do here? The Alk seems a little low but look at the CA readings!! I'm beginning to think that Tropic Marin does not have enough CA in their mix! Also, shouldn't I be alarmed at the low MAG levels. I've read several places that low MAG levels would make it hard to maintain the ALK and CA.

What should add here? I have Kent proDKH buffer and Turbo Calcium and I also have ESV 2 part additive in addition to ESV Magnesium. I don't want to start dumping stuff in the tank and lead to a chemical mess!! I do however have a large area of puple corraline algae still left on the rock and I want to keep it alive and would like it to spread.

What should I add at this point....PLEAASSSEEE.. Help!

[glaudds]

Hi 92reefer,
At this point I would sit back and see how the tank does. IMO I would not start adding additives all at once. Let the tank stabilize. Though your alk/Ca readings are slightly low, I don't feel that's your problem at this time. The mistake a lot of us make is to chase the numbers on the test kits. Just let nature takes its course. Then slowly address each parameter at a time. If the algae problem clears up, than raise your Ca with the turbo CA and then start dosing with the two part to maintain the levels.

Another thought, make sure you clean your skimmer (if you haven't already) so that it runs at its maximum efficiency.
HTH

[92reefer]

OK,

I was tempted to bring the params up because my only coral (yellow polyp rock) was not doing good and I thought that bringing the ALK and CA up would help it...

I'll wait for awhile and see what happens.....