Still fighting DINOS i have some more?????? - Page 5

wrasseguy2 · #**101** 02/08/2007, 07:34 PM

i was fighiting dinos and i just started to use and change my ro-phos more often and bumped my ph up to 8.6 and held it there for a few weeks..i can now say that i do not have any dinos left...just a note i did not do any water changes in that time..the tank i had got those in had been up for a few years..but i guess what works for some might not work for others

Zoom · #**102** 02/08/2007, 08:21 PM

I waited for two days to update this thread so i have enough time to see if any Dinos Bubbles rising up from the rocks so far Nothing .
I saw one very small bubble but it can be any thing i'm still waiting to see if i kill them all. I think will take a week or two for me to said i don't have any Dinos any longer .
If you going to do no lights for four days be sure you try everything else . It is very stressful to the SPS and they are the ones you have to think about , my Clams LPS and Cheato in my refuge acting like nothing happen .
So far i did not lose any SPS but they look like crap some of them STN and some of them Bleach and they look completely deferent color. But there polyps are all out they look like they will recover quickly. I fill my Deltec reactor rowa with some TLF carbon last night my PH is 8.35 tonight this is all time high without any kalk drip . I will update this in two days again.
I'm not 100% sure yet that i kill them but so far so good.
Man the rocks look so nice a purple it is unbelievable.

poppin_fresh · #**103** 02/08/2007, 08:27 PM

FWIW I didn't change my lighting scheme when I had them and they disappeared. For those concerned about their photosynthetic stuffs, there are other ways. I really feel that mine died after agressive phosphate removal via GFO.

Zoom · #**104** 02/08/2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by poppin_fresh
FWIW I didn't change my lighting scheme when I had them and they disappeared. For those concerned about their photosynthetic stuffs, there are other ways. I really feel that mine died after aggressive phosphate removal via GFO.

GFO Did not help me at all. I always use rowa and change it monthly for years .
They said some time they just disappeared as fast as they came.

poppin_fresh · #**105** 02/08/2007, 09:12 PM

What is really odd is last september, I was diving in a reef off Aruba and in some spots the Ocean was covered in the same snot my tank was covered with. I am wondering if this stuff is part of natures cycle and might be hiding in our LR. I would like to see if its still covering these same areas in the wild.

If someone was willing to buy me a vacation... I mean research expedition, I could investigate again.

customcolor · #**106** 02/08/2007, 09:50 PM

i have read that some people have had tanks set up for years and no prop till just latly. they have not changed anything. im just wondering ........ is it in the salt we are using now? i know some big comp. try to find ways to make things cheeper. could this be some cause?????????? im fighting DINOS now too. i was using reef crystals, now insant ocean. plus all the fitting i can muster.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #**107** 02/09/2007, 07:04 AM

GFO Did not help me at all. I always use rowa and change it monthly for years .
They said some time they just disappeared as fast as they came.

You might want to change it a lot more frequently and use a lot more than usual if trying to treat a pest with low nutrients.

Zoom · #**108** 02/09/2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
GFO Did not help me at all. I always use rowa and change it monthly for years .
They said some time they just disappeared as fast as they came.

You might want to change it a lot more frequently and use a lot more than usual if trying to treat a pest with low nutrients.

Randy, i use 1000 ML of rowa that should be more than enough .
And you think Dinos are depending for there survival by high nutrients ?

Randy Holmes-Farley · #**109** 02/09/2007, 08:54 AM

Dinos absolutely require phosphorus to grow. So if you intercept it before they get it, you can presumably win the battle. The only concerns are that you may kill other things first by depriving them as well, and you may find they just go dormant for a while, then grow again when they get more.

Randy, i use 1000 ML of rowa that should be more than enough .

How do you know? We are not talking about maintaining a nice aquarium. We're talking about killing something by depriving them of nutrients. That may require levels substantially lower than NSW.

BobTheBuilder · #**110** 02/09/2007, 09:47 AM

Randy I am confused. 1000ml of Rowaphos is supposed to remove 1 ppm for 400 gallons. Zoom's tank is 200 gallons so he is using double the recommended dosage. He should not have any phosphates for the dinoflagelates to consume or very little. He has been fighting dino for a while. It seems that to eliminate dinos from your tank using phosphate deprivation your water would have to be sterile which is an impossiblity. If dinos need phosphorus to grow they certainly need a lot less than hair algae.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #**111** 02/09/2007, 09:56 AM

Without a measurement of phosphate in the water, I do not think that we can make any particular conclusion about the phosphate levels, especially if the GFO had been left in for a month.

The amount of phosphate that GFO can bind depends very strongly on the phosphate concentration. At 1 ppm phosphate it will bind a lot. At 0.1 ppm it will bind less. At 0.01 ppm it will bind still less. So if the goal is to keep phosphate very low (so low that you kill organisms), then you have much reduced capacity. GFO binding sites will be taken up by other ions in seawater, including organics.

IMO, many GFO resellers make claims that are not supported by the data. For example, the binding certainly is reversible. Bound phosphate comes back off if the concentration of phosphate in the water is lower than when the phosphate was initially bound, assuming that the GFO then has more bound to it than it can hold at equilibrium. This is easy to show and I have shoed it myself.

MrPike · #**112** 02/09/2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

If dinos need phosphorus to grow they certainly need a lot less than hair algae.

Many people with hair algae might disagree with this

The simple fact of the matter is, most of these pests need light, nutrients to grow. You need to limit them in some way, and in a way thats least stressful to your tank as possible. I have no doubt that limiting the light helped this situation, but im worried that now the sensitive acroporids are weak, and the dino's will return, and they will not be able to fend off an attack like they did when they were stronger. Personally I would have gone the route of aggressive GFO use.

Zoom · #**113** 02/09/2007, 08:25 PM

Ok I got home tonight No Dinos at all so Far.
I don't know Randy about not enough GFO use on my tank i had my cheato go doormat on me for over a year because of the amount of GFO i use.
I still don't think any one have any concrete information what Dinos thrive on beside strong lighting.
As for my P04 i use a low range P04 colorimeter to test my tanks for P04 always been lower than the normal scale on my 200 G tank . On my FOWLR tank the P04 is always above normal and is no Dinos in that tank at all.
So far is now three days no Dinos at all. I think i will loose about 5 heads of SPS and most likely i will have a replacement form the locals here .
Thank you all i will update again soon.

Zoom · #**114** 02/09/2007, 08:34 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
[B]Dinos absolutely require phosphorus to grow.

Randy,
Can you show me a link or a artical that i can read up on this . I can not find any thing anywhere yet.

Quote:

Without a measurement of phosphate in the water, I do not think that we can make any particular conclusion about the phosphate levels, especially if the GFO had been left in for a month.

I always test for P04 even after a month of use the P04 is 0, with the colorimeter. But i still go ahead and change it any way, $65 a month for Rowa

old salty · #**115** 02/09/2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zoom
$65 a month for Rowa

It's reached the point that Rowa is costing me more than salt! I am now at day 7 with using Phosar and so far I am quite happy with the initial results (less cost, more product.) Nothing to report on it's performance; only that it does fluidize nicely.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #**116** 02/10/2007, 08:46 AM

Can you show me a link or a artical that i can read up on this . I can not find any thing anywhere yet.

Every growing organism of any kind needs phosphorus, nitrogen, carbon, sulfur, and a few other chemicals. All of these must absolutely be available to make all of the proteins and other biomolecules that go into making up living tissue.

Zoom · #**117** 02/10/2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Can you show me a link or a artical that i can read up on this . I can not find any thing anywhere yet.

Every growing organism of any kind needs phosphorus, nitrogen, carbon, sulfur, and a few other chemicals. All of these must absolutely be available to make all of the proteins and other biomolecules that go into making up living tissue.

I understand all that, I just trying to find out what was that trigger my Dino explosion in my tank.

Guest if we knew we will been making big $.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #**118** 02/10/2007, 06:53 PM

About all that I could find about pest dinos I incorporated into my article. So I do not have any other good links or info on them. Sorry.

Zoom · #**119** 02/10/2007, 09:24 PM

Thank you Randy.
It is four days today No dinos to be found anywhere in my tank .
I did some water test and find my P04 a little higher than normal with the colorimeter it was 0.17 .
Now because i use my rowa reactor for carbon i just use two 150g of phosban gfo in a high flow area of the sump they come with a small bags in the containers so i use that and works very good .
I will check the P04 again in two days to see if the phosphates when down at all.
So far so good .

Randy Holmes-Farley · #**120** 02/11/2007, 09:18 AM

It might not be surprising for phosphate to be elevated if a lot of dinos recently died.

Good luck.

Zoom · #**121** 02/11/2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
It might not be surprising for phosphate to be elevated if a lot of dinos recently died.

Good luck.

Looks that way Randy also my algae in my refuge start to grow very fast .
I never had any more than 00.2 P04 also all the algae that was growing on the rocks and the BB are all gone i think some of the P04 is from that . The tank looks to clean now .
Thank you all , at list i'm learning how to kill the dinos now.
I got to go to the Hospital. I will update soon.

mission man · #**122** 02/11/2007, 09:53 PM

I just recently found that I have a dino outbreak in my 4 month old 180 gallon. I found 2 dead snails, everything else seems ok.I noticed about 2 weeks ago my cheato stopped growing and kinda wilted away a bit. I just hooked up a Tunze kalk dispenser with my ATO and my ph is now at 8.4.(was 8.0 to 8.2) I am going to kill my lights tommorow and try to syphon off the sandbed and rocks. How can I run phosban without a reactor? Also should I continue to dose cal/alk as normal? Looks like im in for a fight

Wish I knew what started it.

Zoom · #**123** 02/11/2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mission man
I just recently found that I have a dino outbreak in my 4 month old 180 gallon. I found 2 dead snails, everything else seems ok.I noticed about 2 weeks ago my cheato stopped growing and kinda wilted away a bit. I just hooked up a Tunze kalk dispenser with my ATO and my ph is now at 8.4.(was 8.0 to 8.2) I am going to kill my lights tommorow and try to syphon off the sandbed and rocks. How can I run phosban without a reactor? Also should I continue to dose cal/alk as normal? Looks like im in for a fight Wish I knew what started it.

First Be sure they are Dinos here is some pictures.
You need to clean off is much of the dinos as you can, also be sure you have no light at all on your tank for four full days .
You can use the small bags that comes with the PhosBan GFO and just put it in a high flow are in your sump i still had my Calcium reactor running all the time the lights was OFF .
Tonight I still don't have any Dinos in my tank but i will wait for at list two weeks before i celebrate. Good luck.

mission man · #**124** 02/12/2007, 07:32 AM

Yea thats what I have on my sandbed. Its not out of control yet but I want to get rid of it as soon as possible.

BobTheBuilder · #**125** 02/12/2007, 09:43 PM

Hi All,

I found another good article on dinoflagellates in addition to Randy's great article. Here is the link. http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/204/m204p111.pdf They did a study on the levels of a strain of dinoflagellates as related to temperature, salinity, nitrogenous waste and phophate. I am on my 4th day of lights out. The sand is as white as can be. Whether it will stay that way remains to be seen. It seems like a major environmental change forces the dinoflagellates to go into a cyst stage and will remain until conditions are more favorable. I have not changed my water in a month and a half but I plan to agressively siphon and change 25 percent of my water to suck up as much of the cysts as possible. I will repeat this 3 more times in next 2 weeks. My nitrates are a bit elevated around 10ppm since I have not changed the water. From the article it seems I would have 60 days til it can go into it's vegatative form once it enters the cyst stage. I believe I originally obtained a dino cyst from either cheatomorpha or one of the corals. I had a situation 6-8 months ago which cause my nitrates to rise to 80 ppm where before the level was always zero. I think this was the event that set it in motion. Now it is just a matter of turning its internal off switch then make sure my nutient levels never get to a level that would be attractive to dino.