Still fighting DINOS i have some more??????

Zoom · #1 12/06/2006, 10:17 AM

Hi ,
After trying everything and nothing works to eliminate dinos - I'm back trying to keep the PH up in my tank I have some problems and ?
I been using Kalk slurry three times a day for about a week now and looks like the dinos is 70% gone .
The problem I have is that all my pumps keep sizing up and needed to be clean every two days, the alarms on my Tunze stream keep going off in the mid of the night .
Can I use B-ionic to keep the PH up it is costly because I need 200Ml a day to keep up the demand- I have the Calcium reactor off for now till I'm done killing the dinos completely it is so much easier to keep the PH up without the constant ph drop form the reactors addition of CO2. My home is very tight and all the windows is close it was 19F this morning outside so I have to keep everything close .
Any good advise will be nice to keep the ph up without Kalk slurry- I don't have that much of evaporation and I can not use fans to get more evaporation the house is to wet as it is , I think so far I'm wining the battle but after 7 days I'm need to stop the pumps from overheating but I don't like to stop now I'm in to my last try to eliminate this pluck .
Thank you for any new ideas.

gilpster · #2 12/06/2006, 11:06 AM

just a post to say that i have the exact same problem as you!

I don't have any ideas either. You could try to increase evaporation, so you could then add more kalk.

You could increase surface agigtation to reduce dissolved CO2.

whatever anyone else suggests i'm going to watch this tread with interest.

kenneth

Jecco · #3 12/06/2006, 12:11 PM

Somebody told me a kalk reactor might help.

Zoom · #4 12/06/2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jecco
Somebody told me a kalk reactor might help.

I only evaporate two gallons a day is not enough to keep the PH up above 8.3 for long . Like I said I can not increase evaporation any more the house already looks like i live in the everglades.
I can dose 100ml of B-ionic and get my ph up to 8.4 from 8.0.
If a slow doser was hook in to my system to dose the two part slowly , it may just be enough to keep the ph above 8.2 continually I don't know if that will work .

Randy Holmes-Farley · #5 12/06/2006, 02:00 PM

Can I use B-ionic to keep the PH up it is costly because I need 200Ml a day to keep up the demand

B-ionic will make the problem worse than limewater. It has a smaller pH rise relative to its alkalinity addition than does limewater by quite a substantial margin.

Frankly, while raising pH may not be working completely, there is no better way to raise pH, if that is the goal.

How high is the alkalinity now?

Zoom · #6 12/06/2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Can I use B-ionic to keep the PH up it is costly because I need 200Ml a day to keep up the demand

B-ionic will make the problem worse than limewater. It has a smaller pH rise relative to its alkalinity addition than does limewater by quite a substantial margin.

Frankly, while raising pH may not be working completely, there is no better way to raise pH, if that is the goal.

How high is the alkalinity now?

Ok no B-Ionic then .
The ALK is 10.4 DKH.
So you said keep up with Kalk slurry three times a day and keep cleaning the pumps till the dinos are all dead - How long you think i need to do the kalk /slurry it is my 8 day today and if you think i can wait some for the kalk to settle and then i can dose? i can only get the ph up about 8.3 this way comparing with freshly stir kalk where the ph goes up to 8.6 in the tank this is a big tank so it need alot of kalk to get the ph up.
Thank you Randy.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #7 12/06/2006, 02:54 PM

Some (many) folks find that pH alone may not be the answer. Some folks never find a good answer.

I'd combine it with aggressive nutrient control, likely using GFO phosphate binders.

Zoom · #8 12/06/2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Some (many) folks find that pH alone may not be the answer. Some folks never find a good answer.

I'd combine it with aggressive nutrient control, likely using GFO phosphate binders.

I use a Deltec 902 skimmer with 50Mg of ozone and a Deltec Rowa reactor with one litter of Rowa full time .
My PO4 is 0.0 with Milwaukee low PO4 colorimeter.
And have dinos any way like you said Ph along may not be the answer but my FOWLR tank with a PO4 at 3.00 don't have any dinos but is not lit with 1200 watts of lighting also.
I did see a change to my dino population with high ph so I don't know what else to do i try everything else.
thank you for your time.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #9 12/06/2006, 04:47 PM

When was the last time you changed the Rowaphos?

Zoom · #10 12/06/2006, 06:44 PM

Do you remember when i post about two weeks a go the Rowa when grey color on me- so i change it again , i usually change it when the colorimeter show me a trace of PO4 in my tank about every 45 days..

Bryan · #11 12/07/2006, 02:31 AM

I share your pain and tried everything to get rid of them to no avail. I decided to try a different approach and although it's early I think I may have the problem licked.

I decided to RAISE my nitrates slightly from undetectable to approx 3-5 ppm N03. This gives macroalgae a chance to flourish and pull the nutrients that otherwise would have fueled the dino's. So far I have been doing this for two weeks and the dino's are starting to look not so healthy and macroalgae is starting to show some promising growth.

I also find it interesting any nitrate added to the tank is quickly consumed as the reading will drop down to undetectable in 3-4 days.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #12 12/07/2006, 02:12 PM

I might try changing the Rowaphos again now.

Zoom · #13 12/07/2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
I might try changing the Rowaphos again now.

Randy, You think with 00 PO4 on the tank water with the colorimeter still need to change the Rowaphos? is only been two weeks that i change it- I check the outflow of the rowa reactor and is no PO4 is detected.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #14 12/07/2006, 03:22 PM

Abundant algae can readily take up plenty of phosphate when levels are undetectable with kits (or that meter), and that may actually be why it is low: because the algae sucks it up so fast. Intercepting the phosphate will deprive them of something they need to grow.

Mike O'Brien · #15 12/07/2006, 03:38 PM

Randy, any thought's on using sodium hydroxide to raise ph. Eric's claimed it was the perfect way to raise the ph of seawater and not too much else. It would raise the alkalinity though won't it. But so does the calcium hydroxide.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #16 12/07/2006, 04:18 PM

Sodium hydroxide is a poorer choice than calcium hydroxide as it raises the alkalinity and not calcium. Calcium hydroxide raises them together. Both are equally effective at raising pH, assuming you add equal amounts, although the sodium hydroxide can be fully dissolved in fresh water at almost any concentration, while the lime will have to be a slurry if replacing all evaporated water with limewater is not enough boost.

Bryan · #17 12/07/2006, 05:06 PM

What about small amounts of Potassium hydroxide?

Randy Holmes-Farley · #18 12/07/2006, 07:56 PM

Same as sodium hydroxide except it may boost potassium a little bit.

wrassie86 · #19 12/07/2006, 11:06 PM

Here is what worked for me.there not completly gone but take a while to come back now.and any one of these could have been the cure.
dropped the temp of the tank to 76 for a month (slows the growth) Ive heard running at 73 for a few days will kill them but no proof.
changed from IO to red sea pro salt (really like this salt)
new filters for RO
pulled out my phosban reactor
Stopped the weekly water changes only replaceing what skimmer removes and maybe 10g's monthly for the last 3 mos (let it burn out what evers in the water)
started adding kalk to the bottom of my top off bin.
built a 2 ft long baster and basted the tank every night before the lights would go out.
while running a panel filter to remove the dinos.

wrassie86 · #20 12/07/2006, 11:13 PM

Randy
Do you think the dinos could be caused by changes the water companys make for winter water? I've heard that different things are done to the water once winter roles in.true or not i dont know
if i'm gonna have problems they seem to come about this time of year.

Zoom · #21 12/07/2006, 11:40 PM

I think i got them when i resive some cheato for my refuge .
wrassie86
I do all that you describe and more and i have dinos over a year now - i think the answer is a kalk reactor with a dosing pump to add kalk 24/7 when toping off our tanks -no one i know have Dinos ,when they use a good Kalk reactor and running it 24/7 and keeping the ph up to over 8.3 .
That is a good idea for a new poll.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #22 12/08/2006, 08:12 AM

Do you think the dinos could be caused by changes the water companys make for winter water?

Maybe. I can't think what they'd do that would cause it, but I'm not sure what all that they might do. Are you using tap water?

pH may also change (drop) in some tanks when windows are closed up for winter.

wrassie86 · #23 12/08/2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zoom
I think i got them when i resive some cheato for my refuge .
wrassie86
I do all that you describe and more and i have dinos over a year now - i think the answer is a kalk reactor with a dosing pump to add kalk 24/7 when toping off our tanks -no one i know have Dinos ,when they use a good Kalk reactor and running it 24/7 and keeping the ph up to over 8.3 .
That is a good idea for a new poll.

I believe it helps,i use a camping cooler for a holder and just fill the bottom with kalk and gavity feed.simple and cheap.(red slime in my sump died after adding kalk)
My thougts are also that when using GFO you can pass the balance that lets the dinos get a foot hold.I know since pulling the GFO my tank has never look better,theres more micro algea growth for the fish feed on and most important the dinos are almost gone.I will still use it but not 24-7.
If making a poll you might add if GFO has also been used long term before hand.

wrassie86 · #24 12/08/2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Do you think the dinos could be caused by changes the water companys make for winter water?

Maybe. I can't think what they'd do that would cause it, but I'm not sure what all that they might do. Are you using tap water?

pH may also change (drop) in some tanks when windows are closed up for winter.

Well it was a stab in the dark and something i heard from another reefer awile back.with so many different plants i dought they would all use the same methods.

I use a big RO DI unit TDS here is around a 126.

Also i wanted add since changing the way i do WC's i went from cleaning my glass every 3 days to well over 6, this has just been the last month or so.
Also i have a post running in the SPS forum for my tank.with pics that still show some of the dinos

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=989337

(first and last tanks pic) incase the link dont work

gilpster · #25 12/08/2006, 11:20 AM

How about running the lighting for very long periods? Perhaps if you ran lighting for 22 hours a day then the pH would not have a chance to fall. You could even right your lighting to a pH probe and use it to maintain pH at a suitable level.

I know it would be very stressful for the fish and other inhabitants - not to mention wholly unnatural for the corals - but might be worth trying if you the choice is taking the tank apart.

kenneth