Effluent with Phosphate reading 2.0

[dgasmd]

Melev:

The only problem with lowering the pH below 6.7-6.8 with ARM is that tons of it will turn into dust and clog the living heck out of your reactor's pads/filters. That is the very same reason a lot of people are trying the Schuran media because the lower the pH the lhigher the DKH. Running the pH at 6.2-6.1 with that media can give you DKH values in the 90's on the effluent without much dust formation. It may be too much CO2 to add into your system depending on your effluent rate and the efficiency of you Ca reactor.

[Bojan]

I use DIY Ca reactor

http://www.sloreef.com/bojan/CaReactor.htm

and I fill reactor with coral sand, actually pieces of the corals . I prefer granulation 10 mm up to complete branches of corals ( 5cm long) for Ca reactor media.

Based on my experiences optimal pH is 6,5 up to 6.6.

[melev]

I could try to go to pH 6.5, something I've never tried before. Bojan - your DIY looks excellent. Nice job! And yes, in my last post, I was referring to ppm (Salifert test). Sorry, I got a little lazy and didn't include the units of measurement.

[Lunchbucket]

i have started using Schuran "knock off" media (sold at premiumaquatics.com) they said it looks teh same as the schuran stuff and might be from the same company. i use it due to the dust issue that dgasmd was talking about w/ arm...i hated it. and for the lower po4 values....not proven but suposed to be lower in po4

Lunchbucket

[Lunchbucket]

tested my tank and effluent for alk and phosphates today here are my numbers:

tank:
alk - 11dKH (salifert)
po4 - 0.0ppm (salifert)

effluent
alk - ~34.0dKH (salifert)
po4 - <0.03ppm (salifert)

i'm glad to see that the po4 is low out of the effluent and undetectable w/ the salifert in the tank. i do realize that my po4 test might be sqewed due to the high alk when i tested it though

melev i'm sure the media has sucked up some po4 and possibly the other stuff in the reactor. hope that it gets all figured out soon!!

BTW - love in the first shot your ER skimmer

Lunchbucket

[melev]

The reactor is circulating water and a little muriatic acid (1 cup worth), so it and its pump will be nice and clean. I need to clean the tubing as well, next. The ARM arrived yesterday, so I'll refill the reactor in a little bit.

I was talking with Rickjb today and he mentioned that the way I control the effluent may be part of the reason the alkalinity is so low. Since water is added to the reactor very slowly, and drips out into the beer cup, the pH rises and drops much slower within the reactor itself. He thinks measuring it within the reactor will turn the Co2 on and off more quickly. I would have to buy some type of probe holder and mount it to the reactor's lid to change the way it is running now.

[Lunchbucket]

melev - i was wondering why you didn't test the pH in the reactor. i have an extra probe holder if you want it

Lunchbucket

[melev]

There is no way to test it within the reactor without turning it off and opening it up. I measure the effluent, which should be what the pH is inside the reactor.

[arconom]

Melev

What you measure coming out is what is inside.

That little reactor that we were talking about I ordered. Here is what I'm going to do.

I will buy a cheap PH controller and place the probe where the probe holder is inside that mini reactor. I will have it turn on and off the Soleniod on my regulaterto control my PH inside.

I learned with my last setup the best way to control PH is to just mess with the Bubble count. It becomes very difficult if you change the effuent rate and bubble count at once.

Originally posted by melev
I was talking with Rickjb today and he mentioned that the way I control the effluent may be part of the reason the alkalinity is so low. Since water is added to the reactor very slowly, and drips out into the beer cup, the pH rises and drops much slower within the reactor itself.

You shouldn't be controlling Incoming water flow to the reactor. Regardless of speed it will recirc.

Your unit has a specific GPH feed pump tha is recommended.

[Lunchbucket]

melev - i just figured you would have a pH probe mounted in the chamber...that is what i meant. i have a holder if you want it

Lunchbucket

[melev]

Wow, two posts in a row by Eric & Eric.

That is pretty much how I planned to run it, Eric #1.

I appreciate the offer, Eric #2. Let me know what you want for it in a PM. Is this something I would screw into the acrylic lid, then put the probe in and tighten a collar to keep it from leaking water out of the reactor? A picture would probably answer all of this.

My reactor is all clean and ready to refill.

[Travis]

Marc, I'm guessing that guy was assuming that the dripping action of the effluent into the cup was aerating the water and causing the ph to rise before being measured. With that mini reactor that Kevin makes, it doesn't look like the effluent drips at all. If it does it is in an enclosed area that isn't exposed to O2 anyways so the ph in that mini reactor will be the same as what is in the calcium reactor chamber. The only thing that would change that is if you run a second stage on your reactore, which will make the ph a couple tenths higher.

[melev]

Tonight I cleaned the calcium reactor completely, using 1 cup muriatic acid and tap water.

I let it run for several hours, then rinsed it out well. All tubing was cleaned as best possible.

The media was replaced with new, the reactor assembled and filled with tank water. During assembly, I kept looking to make sure nothing was missing. I also remembered a friend telling me how he replaced the sponge because the old one was too hard to clean out, but mine didn't have one. I didn't see it anywhere.

While the reactor was running, I was looking at the media and saw a few granules in the base, something I'd never seen before. Did it have a sponge in there before? I decided to check the trash where the media was poured out, and found it. So the reactor had to be disconnected, drained and rinsed out completely again, the sponge installed and refilled.

Once the reactor was full and the water was clear coming out, I tested the effluent of just water going through the ARM media.

Effluent without CO2: 7.7 dKH
Effluent PO4 .1 ppm (makes sense since tank water was in the reactor now)

Tank water: 8.3 dKH
Tank PO4 .5ppm

Phosban reactor #1: .5ppm PO4
Phosban reactor #2: .25ppm PO4

So the reactors were taken offline, emptied, rinsed and refilled with 12 heaping teaspoons of Pura Phoslock and ROWAphos, each. From the side, this is just a little less than 2" of media in each reactor.

Next I turned on the CO2 to the Calcium Reactor, adding 1 bubble per second. The pH controller measures the effluent and dictates when the CO2 should turn off. I'm still waiting for it to reach pH 6.5 in the reactor...

10:50pm 7.7
11:20pm 7.4
11:50pm 7.3
12:20pm 7.2
01:00am 7.0
01:20am 6.9

I'm not going to test the effluent for alkalinity until it reaches pH 6.5 - I guess I could decrease the pH if I increased the bubble count or by allowing the effluent to exit more quickly. Current effluent is 40 ml per minute, which isn't exactly easy to measure. I set a timer and collected what drained out in a graduated cup, but since it was so large, I had to use a syringe to suck out 5ml at a time to determine the amount. I guess I need a smaller device with ml markings on the side to make that easier to determine.

Btw, this is much faster effluent than I have run in the past. Usually it is 3 drops per second, and now it is alotadrops per second.

[melev]

02:30am 6.7 - still waiting for it to hit 6.5

[melev]

Still 6.7 at 3:30am.

[NexDog]

Whack up the CO2 so it gets there quicker and then dial it back after?

[melev]

I agree, as one hour later it was still 6.7. I turned up the bubble counter. I counted 160 bubbles per minute, or roughly 2.5bubbles per second. After 30 more minutes, it finally hit 6.5 and the CO2 shut off. Wow, that took 6 hours!

Effluent with CO2: 32 dKH (Salifert, using two full syringes of the 2nd solution)

Is there a different way to test for Alk using that kit to not use up so much of that solution? Do I use less effluent and double the results perhaps?

[melev]

Two images from the Phosban Reactor. It turns out I only use about 1.5" of media.

[Lunchbucket]

Marc - hope it works out for you.

all i want for that probe holder is shipping cost. you can either drill and tap your lid oryou cna put it in your plumbing of the recirc pump (it is 1/2" pvc threaded)

what a reef junkie...even has a reef product ruler

Lunchbucket

[Habib]

what a reef junkie...even has a reef product ruler

I think we need to bring out a tape ruler which gives a dimesion 25% less than actual value to convinvce the spouse that the delivered tank's size is as agreed and is not larger.

[NexDog]

Did you test the phosphate in the effluent again?

[melev]

No, I thought I'd test it tonight after it has been running for about a day. Those test kits Habib makes never seem to last long enough for me.

That ruler was a freebie at MACNA, and the minute I got it I knew it would come in handy. I have a metal ruler that I've used in the past, but with this one you can put it in the tank if you want to display the size of an item... and it was handy last night, as you can see. I'll PM you, Eric. Thanks.

[melev]

I did a couple of tests tonight now that the newly cleaned Calcium Reactor is up and running, and the Phosban Reactors were refilled last night.

Tank PO4: .1
Effluent PO4: .03 - .1 (to close to call)
Tank Alkalinity: 9.1 dKH

I noticed that the effluent tube is gathering more and more air in it. Last night it was a tiny bubble, but today it is more like 10" or more. The effluent continues to go out but that's a lot of air. I have a feeling it is CO2 actually. The reactor has a few bubbles at the top, but not a huge pocket of air/gas. Does this happen to any of you?

[Travis]

I used to get some CO2 build up in my reactor when I used a mag2 for the recirculation pump. I now use an Iwaki 20 with a spray bar and no longer have any CO2 bubbles at all. I think the combination of the spray bar and the more powerful pressure rated pump help keep the CO2 dissolved better so it doesn't build up at the top, but that is just a guess. What pump does your reactor use for recirculation?

[Travis]

Now that I think about it a little more, your reactor may still just be purging air from the refill. The directions that came with my reactor say to run it with the effluent valve wide open for 24 hours after refilling to purge all the air.