Effluent with Phosphate reading 2.0

[melev]

I just got off the phone with CaribSea, and they are going to send me a new container of ARM to replace the current media. All they asked in return was for me to send them a small sample of what is in my reactor. I'm also going to send them a little bit from the original container, because I had about 1/2" extra left over. In this way they can see it before and after. The person I talked to is going to look at the grain sizes and see if any calcite was mixed in accidentally.

Much of what he told me on the phone would have made more sense to Randy I'm sure, but all I care about is PO4-free effluent.

[melev]

Originally posted by dgasmd
Marc:

By the way, the guy that built mine was a guy named Kevin that lives in Houston I belive. I just tried ging to is site and it is dead. Edward (invincible) knows him as he was the one that did his 2 units too. I think it was like $45 delivered. Very good quality.

The price is great. I don't have that size acrylic anyway, nor the nice screw top. Maybe I can find out if these are still being made.

[NexDog]

If you find out and they are, please let me know.

Also hope CaribSea get back to you but I'm sure we've both seen plenty of threads recently discussing this.

If Randy is getting 0 readings for phospahe in his Ca reactor effluent then we need to know and he reads PO4 then we need to know his solution.

[dgasmd]

Originally posted by melev
The price is great. I don't have that size acrylic anyway, nor the nice screw top. Maybe I can find out if these are still being made.

You can easily build something similar out of 3" PVC and some other PVC parts. Acrylic here adds nothing to functionality.

[melev]

Acrylic will look much nicer than PVC.

Laurence, I don't know if they'll follow up with me, but I can always make a call. I did bring up the suggestion to soak it in RO/DI water for 7 days and he said that doesn't do anything for PO4, but it would if I soaked carbon. Since it didn't pertain to the conversation, I didn't pursue it.

[arconom]

That guy who originally made that mini reactor for "Invincible" went out of business to my knowledge. Towards the end he was very backed up with work. He started slacking with orders.

He built me a sweet Fluidised reactor that I sold since I decided not to use phosban cause of all the horror stories. Now I have to buy another reactor ROFL. Everything in moderation.

Also not to intentionally hijack Marc but maybe we need to find out more about that Biophos? I could use a reactor also Let me know how yours turns out.

I also heard about soaking the ARM in RO/DI I think it might have to do with the phospates actually being released with a the low PH in a calcium Reactor.

Marc I'm glad your finding out the source of your phosphates. I wished I did what I suggested to you in my first setup I guess you live and learn.

[Rickeejb]

Marc, if you have been running the media that is in calcium reactor for quite some time. You said that it is like 3 months old. How do you know where the phosphate in the reactor is coming from? Your tank was very high in phosphates not long ago. The water that was running though the calcium reactor was coming from your tank. Maybe the media the in container is now full of the phophates from the water that was running over it(as well as the sponges in the reactor). The only way to test the media would be before using it in a reactor. I would bet it is very likely that you test the effluent coming out of reactor running set in very low phosphate tank, you would get a lower reading. The same as I would think if you kept the phophates 0 in your tank, changed out the media in the reactor and cleaned the sponges thoroughly. The phophate reading coming out would be a lot lower. By the way, nice job getting a new container of A.R.M.

[dgasmd]

I think the obvious is being ignored here. ALL MEDIA HAVE PO4!! You want to know for sure? Turn off your CO2 for a few hours and measure the pH of the stuff coming out of the Ca reactor for PO4. I bet you it is the same as your tank. Replace the media with the mew one they are sending you. Test again with water running through it and I bet you it is the saem as your tank. Turn on your CO2 again and give it enough time for the pH to get to where it would be disolving media. Test again and I bet you it will be high again. I have been wrong, but this is too easy to prove me wrong and the conditions are lending themselves to be able to prove me wrong.

By the way Marc, why is your effluent's DKH so low? What pH do you run your Ca reactor at? Even when I was using crushed coral I was getting a DKH ont he effluent close to 30.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If Randy is getting 0 readings for phospahe in his Ca reactor effluent then we need to know and he reads PO4 then we need to know his solution.

I deal with that by not using a CaCO3/CO2 reactor.

[melev]

Arconom, I contacted a guy named Kevin on Marshreef.com today, and he's still making the reactor. I'm waiting to get the price with shipping, but he told me it was $59 for the unit itself. Biophos appears to be aluminum-based phosphate remover, but that is all I've determined up to this point. I did quite a bit of reading early this morning before the sun rose.

Rick, that is a good point. I talked with CaribSea about my system, and how I've been battling PO4 in my tank a lot for the past year, how I've always used ARM, and Phosbuster Pro - both are their products. The guy I spoke with asked what the PO4 in the tank was, which I told him was .5, and then he asked what the effluent was, which was 2.0. I didn't think about it loading up in the reactor just like it would LR and LS, but that is logical. FYI, I didn't ask for more media for free, because I bought a container at MACNA and have it here ready to use. My question was why is this media leaching out PO4 at all. Maybe you came up with the answer, but I'll still send in the samples as requested.

dgasmd, I would actually like to test it as you suggested. So I'll give that a try. However, to get an accurate test, do you still test dripping effluent or do you leave it open to get decent flow through the media? Maybe I'll take the entire reactor apart and clean it with vinegar, to remove any traces of PO4.

Btw, I had a light over a part of my sump that made algae grow on the inside of the reactor. Would that be a potential source? It was growing in the tubing that recirculates, in the effluent tubing, and even on the walls of the reactor itself.

My reactor is set up with a pH Controller (thus the reason I like that little effluent reactor), releasing 1 bubble per second. The controller is set to pH 6.7, and the effluent dripping out is maybe 3 drops per second, or more. I just tested the alk in the tank this morning and it was 8.3 dKH. Calcium was 415 two days ago.

[arconom]

Nice Marc I sent invincible a PM maybe he knows some more info on the Biophos.

I might get that reactor. Now the media is the issue.

Regardless if the Phosphates have built up over time and are being stored or are realeased over time with the low PH the phosphates are still a issue.

It's not like your going to take the stuff out of the reactor every 2 weeks and rinse it.

dgasmd is right, all Reactor media has phosphates or releases them. It's just how much I guess that matters.

[Rickeejb]

I am not saying that any media is phosphate free. I am saying in the overall scheme of things that if you have high phosphates in the tank, it's not the fault of the media melting in the calcium reactor. I have been using A.R.M. from the beginning and I never have a phosphate problem. I do have a refugium, and use two phosban reactors, with a bare bottom tank. Not that I am problem free but phosphate usually isn't one of them. Like he mentioned Marc, your effluent sure is low on the alkaliity side. Mine is up around 25dkh also.

[melev]

So how is that number brought up typically?

[arconom]

You have a PM Marc.

[Travis]

FWIW, I have also always used ARM and never had phosphate problems in my tank. I do plan to start dripping it through some phosban in the future once I DIY a container for it.

I know JBNY runs his effluent through phosban and by the way his tank looks, I would think it doesn't seem to cause any problems.

[melev]

Well, if people are dripping the effluent through media, that indicates the definite likeliness of PO4 coming out of their reactors.

Rick, have you ever tested your reactor's effluent for PO4?

[dgasmd]

Originally posted by melev
dgasmd, I would actually like to test it as you suggested. So I'll give that a try. However, to get an accurate test, do you still test dripping effluent or do you leave it open to get decent flow through the media? Maybe I'll take the entire reactor apart and clean it with vinegar, to remove any traces of PO4.

Marc:

Test it the same way you use it, whether it is dripping or a steady stream. I seriously doubt your PO4 were so high as to impregnate into the reactor's media. It is likely to have been high all along. You just did not know because you never tested it before.

I am glad to see you found Kevin. If you don't mind it, please forward me his email to contact him to make me a another.

In the little experiment of the effluents, I would test the following way to eliminate all variables:

1. test tank water
2. test reactor's effluent as it is now without touching the reactor
3. turn off CO2 and test the effluent again when pH has reached the same as the tank.
4. clean the reactor and replace media.
5. test effluent of reactor without CO2 running with new media
6. turn on CO2 and reach you optimum working pH. Test again the effluent.
7 test the tank's water again.

That should give you a picture of the tank and effuent before and after any variable.

Alberto
PS: did you get my email or PM?

[melev]

Originally posted by dgasmd
Marc:

Test it the same way you use it, whether it is dripping or a steady stream. I seriously doubt your PO4 were so high as to impregnate into the reactor's media. It is likely to have been high all along. You just did not know because you never tested it before.

I am glad to see you found Kevin. If you don't mind it, please forward me his email to contact him to make me a another.

In the little experiment of the effluents, I would test the following way to eliminate all variables:

1. test tank water
2. test reactor's effluent as it is now without touching the reactor
3. turn off CO2 and test the effluent again when pH has reached the same as the tank.
4. clean the reactor and replace media.
5. test effluent of reactor without CO2 running with new media
6. turn on CO2 and reach you optimum working pH. Test again the effluent.
7 test the tank's water again.

That should give you a picture of the tank and effuent before and after any variable.

Man, nothing like a little homework, eh?

For #3 and #5, are we talking about the little bit that drips out, or do I want to open the valve to get a steady flow going through the reactor? The wait period could be substantial as the pH rises and drops ever so slowly.

I have his username on Marshreef in my PM box. I'll look it up and give it to you, as he didn't give me an email address.

[dgasmd]

Just let it drip on the cup and raw from the cup. For #3 and #4 you could do it either way. Certainly opening the valve will flush the CO2 present in the reactor faster, but it may be a little too much CO2 dumped at once. I seriously doubt it will do anything, but watch your tank's pH just in case.

Alberto
PS: Did you get my PM or email?

[Rickeejb]

Originally posted by melev

Rick, have you ever tested your reactor's effluent for PO4?

I tested the effluent coming out of the calcium reactor today, twice, with a brand new phosphate test kit. Both times the reading was zero, or as close to the zero color as I could tell. That is with A.R.M. and the reactor is very low, so it is media that has been in there for a couple of months.

[melev]

Can you tell me how to raise the alkalinity of the effluent? Do I need to decrease the pH more? I asked this earlier and never got a reply.

PO4 today was still around .25 in the tank, and 0 in the effluent cup.

[NexDog]

You might be fixing the symptom rather than the root cause but at least you're on the right track with zero readings in teh effluent.

[melev]

Oh, no doubt. I'm going to replace the media. I'm just testing what is occuring in the tank now.

[Bojan]

Originally posted by melev
Tank: .5 (nice drop for 24 hours)
Effluent: 2.0 (assuming the test is accurate with higher alk and lower pH)

What are the units ?

0.5 ppm in tank and 2 ppm in effluent.

Is this true ?

[Bojan]

Originally posted by melev
[B]Can you tell me how to raise the alkalinity of the effluent? Do I need to decrease the pH more? I asked this earlier and never got a reply.

If you want to raise the alkalinity with the same Effluent Flow you have to increase bubble rate od CO2, so you have to decrease pH inside reactor.

There is my article about setting of the Ca reactor.
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/reactor.htmlhttp://www.sloreef.com/bojan/CaReactorPerformance.htm