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#52
09/08/2007, 12:39 AM
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Do you have any Seachem Reef Salt left ?
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#53
09/08/2007, 01:43 PM
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Yes, one sealed bag, and about 1/2 left from an open one.
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Florida Live Rock Addict. |
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#54
09/08/2007, 01:55 PM
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Howard, this is what I suggest we do if you are in the experimenting mood.
We will both take exactly one gallon of ro/di (this shouldn't be too difficult to measure) Then we will take a baking measuring cup (like they use for measuring flour and things) only we'll use the 1/2 cup. Fill it with Seachem reef salt and scrape it level with the back edge of a knife. Mix it in the gallon of water, stir and mix until dissolved completely. Lets say one hour. Then we will test calcium (you using your Seachem and API kits) and I'll use my Salifert, API and Seachem kit We should also test salinity with our refracts. I'll be testing at about 75 degrees although this shouldn't be too much of a problem as our refracts are temperature compensating. Then we'll post our numbers and see where we are at. You game ? 
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#56
09/08/2007, 02:04 PM
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OK I'll do it tomorrow morning.
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#57
09/09/2007, 01:07 AM
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Well Howard, I wasn't too tired when I got home from work so I did mine just now. Here are my results.
Exactly 1 gallon of ro/do mixed with a level half cup of Seachems Reef Salt. Mixed occasionally for one hour and at room temp. Specific Gravity ended up at 1.0245 Salifert Calcium Kit - 490 ppm API Calcium Kit - 490 ppm (actually between 480 and 500) Seachem Calcium Kit - 425 ppm As usual the Seachem is testing about 65 to 70 ppm lower than the others. Since I had the gallon made up, I tested alk and mag as well. Alk - 10 dkh Mag - 1260 ppm Remember, this is all at 1.0245 The test gallon is now in my tank. I'll await your numbers.
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#58
09/11/2007, 03:02 PM
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<<< Exactly 1 gallon of ro/do mixed with a level half cup of Seachems Reef Salt. Mixed occasionally for one hour and at room temp.
Specific Gravity ended up at 1.0245 >>> Hmmmm......we appear to disagree right off the bat. I mixed up exactly 1g RO/DI with exactly 1/2 cup Reef Salt and get a salinity of 29.5 PPT on both my refracto and 2 different swing arms. This was 1 hr. after of heavy circulation and aeration. What salinity does Seachem say 1g and a 1/2 cup should mix up to??
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Florida Live Rock Addict. |
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#59
09/11/2007, 04:26 PM
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7 things
1. The moisture in the bags may be different. The one with the most will give a lower salinity. 2. Are you guys using dry cups or wet cups, they are not the same. 3. What is a level cup ? You poured it level, heaped it and then plowed it off, how was it plowed off or packed it down till level, etc.. ? 4. The salt was not well mixed and all in solution. 5. Someones Salinity device/s are off 2-3 ppt and you don't know it. 6. Salinity devices are only accurate to +/- 1 ppt. 7. You guys don't know what you are doing and are just guessing. What salinity does SeaChem say 1g and a 1/2 cup should mix up to?? 1.0245 = 32.5 if it was done correctly
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If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be. |
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#60
09/11/2007, 05:30 PM
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<<< What salinity does SeaChem say 1g and a 1/2 cup should mix up to??
1.0245 = 32.5 if it was done correctly >>> This is from Seachems website: " NOTE: To prepare small quantities, use 34 g of Reef Salt™ per each liter (1/2 cup per each US gallon) of water. 2. Stir well to ensure a good mix. Although the Reef Salt™ solution may be used immediately, we suggest aerating the water until it achieves oxygen/carbon dioxide equilibrium. 3. Measure specific gravity. For reef aquarium 1.020 – 1.025 at 24 C (75 F) is recommended NOTE: 675 g of Reef Salt™ is formulated to create 20 liters (1.4 lbs per 5 US gallons) of saltwater at a specific gravity of 1.021. " -------------- To address Boomers points... My salt actually WAS a bit moist. I did not pack the salt down at all, but rather used a heaping 1/2 cup and leveled it off with a plastic knife. I noticed no undisolved sediment in the container after 1 hr, but it's definately possible it didn't all go into solution within that time. Perhaps the 1g graduation mark in the old tupperware container I used was not actually 1g. I may not know what I'm doing as Boomer says 
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Florida Live Rock Addict. |
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#61
09/11/2007, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
1. I'll agree with the moisture thing. Mine was completely dry and Howards was a little wet, hence his lower salinity. However, that should not skew the calcium results. 2. Dry cups. Both of us did the same thing. Filled up a 1/2 cup dry measure and scraped flat with the back edge of a knife. 3. See # 2 4. My salt was all in solution. I'm pretty surer Howards was too. 5. That is a possibility, or is it moisture like you stated in Item 1 ? We both calibrate our refracrs with Pinpoint 53 ms fluid. 6. OK , he was at 29.5 ppt and I was at 32.5 ppt. Thats more than 1  7. I'll make believe I didn't hear you say that.  Howard, How about the calcium numbers ? |
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#62
09/11/2007, 09:25 PM
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<<< Howard, How about the calcium numbers ? >>>
I didin't test for calcium yet. I'm going to pour out that sample and try again tomorrow using a pyrex glass measuring cup to make 1g of water and pack that old moist salt down a bit in the measuring cup......then I'll recheck the salinity again and go from there.
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Florida Live Rock Addict. |
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#63
09/11/2007, 09:40 PM
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OK Howard. But I didn't pack mine, although since it was very dry, I don't think I could have gotten much more in there.
I just filled the cup, tapped it a few times on the counter and scraped off the excess with the back edge of a knife. I'm sure for our experiment this will be fine.
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#64
09/12/2007, 06:35 AM
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I just got my results back:
Ammonia (NH3-4) Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.050 mg/l Tested: 0.003 mg/l Your ammonia levels are within the recommended values. We recommend staying with the current feeding and stocking levels. Be sure to maintain a good schedule of water changes and additives. Ammonia levels can rise after the addition of new animals, after a water change, or after the changing of food diet. Any ammonia level above 0.05 mg/l is a cause for concern, and the source should be found and corrected. Nitrite (NO2) Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.100 mg/l Tested: 0.006 mg/l Your nitrite values are within the acceptable range. We recommend continuing with your current maintenance and feeding schedules. Residual levels of nitrite are common in marine aquariums. Levels of 0.05 or less are of little concern. If the levels are higher than this, the source should be found and corrected. Nitrate (NO3) Natural Seawater Value: 0.050 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 25 mg/l Tested: 0.822 mg/l Your nitrate values are within acceptable parameters. Be sure to maintain correct stocking and feeding levels, as well as a regular water change schedule. Nitrate is not toxic in and of itself, but a rising level is indicative of deteriorating water conditions, and any level above 5.0mg/L in reef aquariums is a reason for concern. Phosphate (PO4) Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.250 mg/l Tested: 0.061 mg/l Your phosphate levels are within acceptable parameters. We recommend continuing the current maintenance and water change schedule. The use of a phosphate absorbing resin is recommended to keep phosphate levels below 0.05 mg/l. Silica (Sio2-3) Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/l Tested: 1.901 mg/l Your silicate level is too high. We recommend that you use a deionization resin for your make-up/top-off water. You may also use a commercially available phosphate absorber, as these will also remove some silicate. Silicate is required by many types of sponges for growth/reproduction, but will also encourage brown diatom algae growth. Any level above 0.3 mg/l may cause a diatom bloom in the aquarium. Potassium (K) Natural Seawater Value: 390 mg/l Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l Tested: 422 mg/l Your potassium level is within the acceptable range. We recommend continuing with your current water change and chemical additive schedule. Potassium is an important constituent of seawater, being found in almost the same concentration as calcium. Potassium is important for neurological functions in fishes, as well as being a critical plant nutrient required by zooxanthellae and macro algae. Calcium (Ca) Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/l Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l Tested: 428 mg/l Your calcium levels are within acceptable parameters. We recommend that you continue with your current schedule of calcium additions. Calcium is critical to healthy coral skeletal growth, and many other biological processes. Maintenance of calcium levels that are at or near seawater values is an important factor in having a healthy reef aquarium. Boron (B) Natural Seawater Value: 4.6 mg/l Acceptable Range: 3.0 – 6.0 mg/l Tested: 1.590 mg/l Your boron, (as borate) levels are too low. We recommend performing a water change, and possibly the addition of a commercial buffer containing borate salts. Boron is an important part of the water buffering capacity, and a lack of boron can lead to dangerous fluctuations in pH and alkalinity. Molybdenum (Mo) Natural Seawater Value: 0.100 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.080 to 0.120 mg/l Tested: 0.202 mg/l Your molybdenum level is too high. We recommend a partial water change to reduce this level. You should also suspend the use of any additives containing molybdenum. Molybdenum is important for the biological processes of bacteria, and may be of some benefit to corals as well. High levels of molybdenum are known to encourage blooms of slime algae or cyanobacteria. Strontium (Sr) Natural Seawater Value: 8.1 mg/l Acceptable Range: 5.0 to 12.0 mg/l Tested: 9.02 mg/l Your strontium levels are at within acceptable values. We recommend continuing with your current additive schedules. Strontium is important to coral growth, as they incorporate strontium ions into their skeletal mass, particularly SPS corals. It is also important to coralline algae growth. Magnesium (Mg) Natural Seawater Value: 1280 mg/l Acceptable Range: 1100 to 1400 mg/l Tested: 1267 mg/l Your values are within the acceptable range. We recommend staying with your current water change and additive schedule. Magnesium is a very important part of the water buffering system, and is incorporated into coral skeletons. It is also critical to any photosynthetic processes. Iodine (IŻ) Natural Seawater Value: 0.060 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.030 to 0.090 mg/l Tested: 0.059 mg/l Your iodine levels are within acceptable parameters. We would recommend continuing with the current water change and additive schedule. Please be advised that many Iodine supplements are difficult to dose accurately, and “above normal” readings are easy to achieve with common iodine additives. Copper (Cu++) Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.030 mg/l Tested: 0.027 mg/l Your copper levels are within the acceptable range. We recommend continuing with your current water change schedule, being careful to use only RO/DI water for make-up/top-off water. Use of activated carbon can also help keep this level in check. Copper is fatal to marine invertebrates at levels as low as 0.05 mg/l for many species. Alkalinity (dkh) Natural Seawater Value: 2.5 meq/l Acceptable Range: 2.5 to 5.0 meq/l Tested: 4.366 meq/l Your alkalinity is within acceptable values. We recommend continuing with your current water change and buffering schedule. Maintaining an appropriate alkalinity is crucial to maintaining a healthy aquarium. A fluctuating alkalinity will lead to serious problems in maintaining an appropriate pH, as well as problems keeping calcium and magnesium levels within required parameters. Thank you for using AquariumWaterTesting.com
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#66
09/12/2007, 10:38 AM
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Howard
20 liters (1.4 lbs per 5 US gallons) of saltwater at a specific gravity of 1.021. " Math was it is 32.55 with no moisture 635.029 L - 18.927 grams = 616.1 /18.927 = 32.55 ppt and they are saying 1.021 which is 27.8 @ 75 F, so 27.8/32.55 = 14.6 % moisture, which is not unheard of in salt mixes but is on the high end. If we go by that then, 35 grams of salt will make 29.89 ppt and equating their 34 g / 1/2 cup is 28.9 ppt = 1.0218 vs 1.021 so they are close. Billy I just filled the cup, **tapped it a few times** on the counter That will change its bulk density giving you a higher Sg vs Howard's. Pour till cup is slightly over filled and plow of with the back side of a knife. You guys have to go by the exact same procedures and be using the same exact salt. VOL is not good always, to many variables. You guys should go by weight in grams. 35 grams for 1 L= x Sg/S and you most remember that that salt has vol. So, you should fill a 1 L container up to 3/4 L, add salt and stir until dissolved. Then add the rest of the water to the 1 L mark and stir/aerate some more at Rt for 1 hr and measure the Sg/S. If you do this and the refracts are cal with 53mS and the salinity is different, then more than likely it is a moisture issue. Also, the bag of salt should be tumbled to make sure all the salt in the bag is well mixed, due to settling from practice density and particle size settling. |
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#67
09/12/2007, 11:34 AM
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I'll say it again they are way off on their Silica. I do not know how they get those numbers. It is given as 100µmol / kg and 28.09 x 100 = 2800 µgrams = 2.8 mg /l avg . Most books give it as ~ 2 ppm.
Silica (Sio2-3) Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/l Tested: 1.901 mg/l That .040 is only when the Si has been driven down by diatoms where they are limited. The range in the world oceans is .2 - 170 µMol /kg and each x 28.09 = 5.16 - 4775 µgrams / 1,000 = .005- 4.75 mg / l with an avg of 2.8 mg/ l. Most of the Pacific is over 100µMol/ Kg and most of the Atlantic is < 50 µMol /kg. and they are also off on this Molybdenum (Mo) Natural Seawater Value: 0.100 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.080 to 0.120 mg/l It is 0.0100, not 0.100 Periodic Table of Elements in the Ocean http://www.mbari.org/chemsensor/pteo.htm Last edited by Boomer; 09/12/2007 at 11:43 AM. |
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#68
09/12/2007, 04:27 PM
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Here's mine. Don't know why my silica is so high. I have a new RO/DI unit.
Ammonia (NH3-4) Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.050 mg/l Tested: 0.026 mg/l Your ammonia levels are within the recommended values. We recommend staying with the current feeding and stocking levels. Be sure to maintain a good schedule of water changes and additives. Ammonia levels can rise after the addition of new animals, after a water change, or after the changing of food diet. Any ammonia level above 0.05 mg/l is a cause for concern, and the source should be found and corrected. Nitrite (NO2) Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.100 mg/l Tested: 0.004 mg/l Your nitrite values are within the acceptable range. We recommend continuing with your current maintenance and feeding schedules. Residual levels of nitrite are common in marine aquariums. Levels of 0.05 or less are of little concern. If the levels are higher than this, the source should be found and corrected. Nitrate (NO3) Natural Seawater Value: 0.050 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 25 mg/l Tested: 1.983 mg/l Your nitrate values are within acceptable parameters. Be sure to maintain correct stocking and feeding levels, as well as a regular water change schedule. Nitrate is not toxic in and of itself, but a rising level is indicative of deteriorating water conditions, and any level above 5.0 mg/L in reef aquariums is a reason for concern. Phosphate (PO4) Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.250 mg/l Tested: 0.022 mg/l Your phosphate levels are within acceptable parameters. We recommend continuing the current maintenance and water change schedule. The use of a phosphate absorbing resin is recommended to keep phosphate levels below 0.05 mg/l. Silica (Sio2-3) Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/l Tested: 6.401 mg/l Your silicate level is too high. We recommend that you use a deionization resin for your make-up/top-off water. You may also use a commercially available phosphate absorber, as these will also remove some silicate. Silicate is required by many types of sponges for growth/reproduction, but will also encourage brown diatom algae growth. Any level above 0.3 mg/l may cause a diatom bloom in the aquarium. Potassium (K) Natural Seawater Value: 390 mg/l Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l Tested: 290 mg/l Your potassium levels are too low. We recommend performing a partial water change, and possibly adding a commercial additive containing potassium. Potassium is rapidly depleted from aquarium water by several plant and animal metabolic processes. Maintenance of appropriate levels is critical for cellular respiration, as well as being an important nutrient for coral zooxanthellae and macro algae. Calcium (Ca) Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/l Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l Tested: 347 mg/l Your calcium levels are too low. We recommend using a commercial calcium additive to raise this level. There are several methods for doing this. Calcium is a critical parameter for coral growth in reef aquariums, and chronically low levels will cause coral mortality and loss of coralline algae and other invertebrate species. Boron (B) Natural Seawater Value: 4.6 mg/l Acceptable Range: 3.0 – 6.0 mg/l Tested: 4.0 mg/l Your boron levels are within given parameters. We recommend maintaining your current buffering and water change schedule. Boron is a significant portion of your aquarium Ph and water buffering capacity, and is crucial to maintaining appropriate calcium levels, as well as being essential to several biological processes, including macro algae growth. Molybdenum (Mo) Natural Seawater Value: 0.100 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.080 to 0.120 mg/l Tested: 0.300 mg/l Your molybdenum level is too high. We recommend a partial water change to reduce this level. You should also suspend the use of any additives containing molybdenum. Molybdenum is important for the biological processes of bacteria, and may be of some benefit to corals as well. High levels of molybdenum are known to encourage blooms of slime algae or cyanobacteria. Strontium (Sr) Natural Seawater Value: 8.1 mg/l Acceptable Range: 5.0 to 12.0 mg/l Tested: 7.860 mg/l Your strontium levels are at within acceptable values. We recommend continuing with your current additive schedules. Strontium is important to coral growth, as they incorporate strontium ions into their skeletal mass, particularly SPS corals. It is also important to coralline algae growth. Magnesium (Mg) Natural Seawater Value: 1280 mg/l Acceptable Range: 1100 to 1400 mg/l Tested: 1100 mg/l Your values are within the acceptable range. We recommend staying with your current water change and additive schedule. Magnesium is a very important part of the water buffering system, and is incorporated into coral skeletons. It is also critical to any photosynthetic processes. Iodine (I¯) Natural Seawater Value: 0.060 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.030 to 0.090 mg/l Tested: 0.056 mg/l Your iodine levels are within acceptable parameters. We would recommend continuing with the current water change and additive schedule. Please be advised that many Iodine supplements are difficult to dose accurately, and “above normal� readings are easy to achieve with common iodine additives. Copper (Cu++) Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.030 mg/l Tested: 0.031 mg/l Your copper levels are too high. We recommend the use of activated carbon to reduce this level. You should also use only RO/DI water for make-up/topoff water, as most copper that gets into tanks comes from copper water pipes in the home. It is also an ingredient in many fish medications. Copper is an important trace mineral for metabolic processes in many marine organisms. However, levels above 0.05 are toxic to almost all invertebrates and some fish species. Alkalinity (dkh) Natural Seawater Value: 2.5 meq/l Acceptable Range: 2.5 to 5.0 meq/l Tested: 3.959 meq/l Your alkalinity is within acceptable values. We recommend continuing with your current water change and buffering schedule. Maintaining an appropriate alkalinity is crucial to maintaining a healthy aquarium. A fluctuating alkalinity will lead to serious problems in maintaining an appropriate pH, as well as problems keeping calcium and magnesium levels within required parameters. |
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#69
09/13/2007, 01:35 AM
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I'd be curious to know what reference solutions they are using for some of these salt water tests. I'd also like to know how they are verifying the reference solutions if home made are accurate.
I wouldn't have even questioned it but some of the values they are giving as Boomer has said is so far off it begs the question. Carlo |
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#70
09/13/2007, 07:45 AM
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If your are curious, I would suggest that you call or email them and just ask. It certainly wouldn't hurt!
What the results did for me was give me "piece of mind". I was struggling with my test results because of Salifert Alk. I had 3 kits that gave results from 9.9 to 12.9! I had API & IO give different results. HABIB sent me a test kit with reference solution, but since that was ..............................You get the point. I do know that of the test results that I test for, they were pretty close to my results.
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click on red house for pics! |
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#72
09/15/2007, 04:05 PM
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Quick question fot thoes who are using this service, how lond did it take to get your kits ?
I send the paypal payment friday and did not get any email responce Just the automated Paypal recipt
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You Make Me Come, You Make Me Complete, You Make Me Completely Miserable |
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#73
09/15/2007, 04:46 PM
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Has anyone tried this service? It looks appealing to me in that it test for more more things for less money. http://www.natureef.com/
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Don What have you got to lose? |
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#74
09/15/2007, 05:18 PM
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click on red house for pics! |
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#75
09/15/2007, 05:21 PM
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click on red house for pics! |
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