Almost ready to give up

casethekid · #1 06/27/2006, 09:47 PM

Well...a few months ago I posted about some insane nitrate levels. To date, the problem has not been resolved, and what's worse, is the hair algae has started to kill things off. I have done everything that I can think of. Water changes, different filtration, more skimming, macro algae, RO/DI water...everything. I might just tear everything apart and start from scratch if I can't figure this out. I have never had this problem before.

Sk8r · #2 06/27/2006, 10:02 PM

You have no filter media, bioballs, etc? Those are known issues on nitrate.
Have you tried running phosban? That can reduce phosphate, which will help or eliminate the hair algae problem.

If you feed fish flake or pellet, that adds phosphate to the tank. It can fuel algae if you don't have a way to get it out, like a 'fuge or phosban or an efficient cleaning crew.

ACBlinky · #3 06/27/2006, 10:26 PM

casethekid -- I can understand the frustration, sometimes I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall too. Don't break the tank down yet; give us all your parameters, equipment and tank specs including the present population and clean up crew, and as much info about your maintenance routine as possible. A pic never hurts either. Bomb us with information! I've seen it work before, we'll all brainstorm and break things down to help you solve the problem

whiteshark · #4 06/27/2006, 10:29 PM

To get my trates down,which were at 200 ppm at one point, I did 13 20% water changes. One every day for 13 days. Now I do a 20% every other week. Lots of work, but my trates havent risen above 5-10 scince.

crustin · #5 06/27/2006, 10:49 PM

agree with posters, equitment? parameters? feeding? some times the right inhabites will help

crustin · #6 06/27/2006, 10:53 PM

how old are your bulbs?

crustin · #7 06/27/2006, 10:57 PM

just read your post again, as far as insaine nitrate levels go, ime, massive water changes, 50 percent at a time

coralcat · #8 06/27/2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by casethekid
Well...a few months ago I posted about some insane nitrate levels. To date, the problem has not been resolved, and what's worse, is the hair algae has started to kill things off. I have done everything that I can think of. Water changes, different filtration, more skimming, macro algae, RO/DI water...everything. I might just tear everything apart and start from scratch if I can't figure this out. I have never had this problem before.

OK ENOUGH WILL HELP YOU. START POSTING Be honest, no one will bite

casethekid · #9 07/01/2006, 06:41 PM

Ok, I have a HOB skimmer (CPR backpack). Since my giving up rant...I have changed the lights (which were about 1 1/2 years old) and purchased a pump for my large Berlin XL. I have some pics of my first plumbing job on my tank.

Anyway, after I figured out how to run all the pipes for my new, larger skimmer, the scum started bubbling to the top almost immediately. I think that I am going to do some very heavy duty water changes now. Here are some pics of the tank in its current state and the new skimmer

Eww...

Here's the skimmer..

the new 950gph pump

Plumbed and ready

Bubbly? Good enough bubbles now?

As far as feeding, I feed my fish mysis shrimp or brine shrimp about 3 times a week. I also have tested for phosphates, alkalinity, salinity, pH, and so far everything seems to be in order

hopper · #10 07/01/2006, 07:48 PM

Have you tried some turbo snails and maybe a foxface? They will help consume the HA. When you do a 10 gallon or so water change, use the water you took out of the tank and use it to place your rock in one at a time and start scrubbing with a toothbrush. After you take all the HA off of each rock you can place it back in the tank. This is a time consuming and hard job to do, but you will get your HA problem down to where it will be easier to manage. You just have to figure out what is causing the outbreak. I'm willing to bet that if your lights were 1 1/2 years old, that is part of the problem. Process of elimination is sometimes the only way to really find out what exactly is causing the problem. Hang in there though because it can be beat and you will thank yourself for sticking with it.

mm949 · #11 07/02/2006, 02:19 PM

DNR......black the tank for a few days....

Chupakabra-King · #12 07/02/2006, 04:32 PM

You'll love that skimmer ! I run one of those and have to clean it every 3 days. You have the right pump for it . Just keep it in tune and watch it go !

Exporting those nutrients is the most important thing you can do to help shorten the outbreak of any nuisance algae . Good luck !

casethekid · #13 07/02/2006, 05:33 PM

Here is a pic of the skimmer not 3 hours later...who needs a "break in" time

Thank you all for the kind words of encouragement and support. Now I am off to change lots of water and scrub rock..this is a great lifesyle!!

kappaknight · #14 07/02/2006, 05:34 PM

I think changing the lightbulb was the key to stop promoting the growth of hair algae. The rest is just maintenance...

chaseracing · #15 07/02/2006, 08:28 PM

Water changes have always been the key for me. For some reason Carbon seems to work well also whenever I am having issues. I am not sure if carbon will help at all but it won't hurt.

Does the tank ever get direct sunlight? I thought one of mine never did untill one morning when I got up bright and early and found out that the first 10 minutes of sunlight in the morning would shine through the window and right onto my tank!!!

-=E=-

Briankook · #16 07/02/2006, 08:32 PM

kappanight, you are exactly correct. 1.5 years on those bulbs is too long. Algae will grew quickly if not changed in time. I know this from personal experience. CHANGE EVERY SIX MONTHS TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE!
That is one of the main factors of your algae problem in my opinion.

casethekid · #17 07/02/2006, 08:47 PM

No, the tank doesn't get any direct sunlight because the window it's next to faces south. I gave the rocks a good scrubbing and it looks 10 times better now. I also changed about 40 gallons of water (in a 75) over about 2 hours. I think that I will let that settle for a bit and then start making some more saltwater for another change here about Wednesday.

Thanks again for the advice everyone. After doing this for 10 years, I still learn something better and new every time I come here to RC.

chaseracing · #18 07/03/2006, 01:53 PM

That's what we are all here for!!!

-=E=-

RichConley · #19 07/03/2006, 01:57 PM

how much flow do you have? low flow causes stuff to settle, and that causes algae problems.

casethekid · #20 07/03/2006, 03:14 PM

I think that my flow is a little on the low side compared to what I have seen some of these cray flow-maniacal people push.

(Note the dripping sarcasm) Anyway, I think that another thing I will need to do is purchase another pump to run a closed loop system on. I have a 75 so I need to look at the flow calculator to see how many times I should be turning the water over to ensure correct and proper flow to all parts of my tank.

On another note, would it be beneficial to get some more "starter" sand, like from the bottom of LFS rock tank or something to re-seed the sand? I haven't seen any pods or mini stars for about 5 months..

p4ck37p1mp · #21 07/03/2006, 04:30 PM

Its a neverending project, probably why we like it.

You'll get it under control, I was there several months ago when Caulerpa got into my display and went crazy. I got a better skimmer, upped the flow, got a foxface rabbitfish and got it under control. Those faxfaces really mox the algae, and this one trained my tangs to eat it too. They hadn't touched it until the foxface started in on it, I guess they got jealous and learned to munch it, now their insatiable for nori and chaeto trimmings from the fuge. They eat it like spaghetti, sucking it down!

You might want to get a hunk of chaeto from a local fellow reefer or LFS to reseed your pods and micro fauna. A little sand from an established tank certainly wouldn't hurt either.

dolfans1 · #22 07/03/2006, 04:44 PM

I don't know if anyone has a sure-fire way of getting rid of hair algae. I had a major problem like yours about a month after I set up my tank. The difference was that my nitrate readings were 0 ppm. Of course this may have been because the algae was absorbing the nitrates as fast as I was generating them.

Your first priority should be to get rid of the nitrates - these are probably what's fueling the algae, and as long as they are high, the algae will return. Nitrates get exported from the tank in 1 of 3 ways: by anaerobic bacteria (if you have a deep sand bed), by water changes, and by skimming. The water changes you're doing and new skimmer should help your cause a lot. All that brown gunk your skimmer is now pulling off is organic matter that eventually would turn into nitrates. It may take a little time, but your nitrates should start dropping - just be persistant.

Other things that you can do to help speed up the exit of the algae:

1. Reduce your lighting. I have 2 x 400 W MH lights + 2 VHO actinic fluorescents. During my HA outbreak, I was keeping the VHOs on about 10 hours/day and the MH on only about 4 hours. Once the algae disappears, you can slowly increase the lighting back to your normal level.

2. Add a phosphate sponge like Phosban. Even though my phosphate readings were 0, I added 500 g to my filter bag. I've heard that trace levels of phosphate (below the range of most test kits) can help fuel algae growth. Don't know if it's true or not, but it can't hurt.

3. I added 3 doses (12 oz each) of Kent Marine Biological Clarifier. This is bacteria that supposedly competes for the same nutrients as the hair algae. Again, I don't know if it's true, but shortly after the 3rd dose of the stuff my algae started disappearing.

Good luck.

casethekid · #23 07/04/2006, 12:03 PM

I'll have to look around for some chaeto or something that I can maybe make into a fuge for all sorts of crawly critters...I do have a 20 long that I can make into a sump. Just a matter of getting the pump to make the return. I was thinking maybe with the return on the sump plumb it for a closed loop system. I'll just have to wait and see what $$$ comes in here.

Thanks again for all the encouragement. The tank looks 1000x better already.

casethekid · #24 07/08/2006, 05:32 PM

Ok, so about a week has passed and there is very little regrowth on the hair algae. I also was looking at the berlin classic XL manual, and it appears I don't have the turbo version, but I do have the venturi version. There is something in it about a venturi cone? What is a venturi cone, and do I need it? Will it make the skimmer more efficient?

viper357 · #25 07/15/2006, 03:24 PM

Did you remove any of the centre tubes in the skimmer ?