more than 2 nems in a 29gallon sps tank

[brandon7491]

less than suitable u say? do u really think in the ocean anemones move miles a day? if that were the case anemones would be extinct. usually in the wild an anemone finds a place with high flow,light and able to get food. my reef supplies all of that and is very stable. let me ask u one more thing do u even think that more than one nem could be kept in a 55,60,65,72,100,120 ect... one other quick thing, this is just like the big discussion about keeping sps with softies due to their potential chemical warfare. everyone thinks taht a tank is gonnna crash if u have that mix when they did not because people learned,tried,reasearched. its all a big trial and error. but i do believe u can keep more than one nem in a tank. nd i am planning on doing so. like i have been stating mindlessly if things go wrong then i will immediatily pull out the anemone nd put it in the other tank.

[Slakker]

Move the anemone to another tank, thereby creating more stress for the anemone and potentially pounding the nail in the coffin.
You make your point as if you're the first person to ever try this. There's a reason people are giving you the advice you're getting, we've seen the failures in other tanks, we've read the research (Yes, people do ACTUAL research about things like this.)

I never said anything about movement. My point is not that anemones travel large distances, though I'm not sure how on earth would you know that they don't move. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, I haven't done any research on it myself, but I'll bet you didn't either.
ONE anemone capable of reaching 24 inches in diameter should be in a tank that is more than 12.5 inches wide, and two anemones that can potentially reach that size really need more space.

I absolutely think that multiple anemones can be kept in larger tanks, but yours just isn't sufficient to support them. Since you're trying to pull the "ocean" card here, do you really think your 29 gallons of aquarium is as stable as the 3.612 x 10²º (give or take) gallons of the ocean?

[cartman5579]

Brandon, i'll tell you what, and i'm the one who said do it remember....

your tank IS large enough to have both the nems you have and the green one if you wanted. But, what i didn't understand was that your tank is FULL of SPS. And it really doesn't matter if its SPS or other coral, those nems you have will only have to get a LITTLE bigger, or move just a hair and they will kill something. Looking at your tank i don't think i'd feel safe putting in one anemone, let alone 3. You have your work cut out for you thats for sure. With moving coral all the time so that they don't get stung. I know cause i've had to do it. If you like nems so much, just do what i did. Take everything out of your tank except the LR and aquascape something especially for a anemone tank. I'm more than happy with my decision. My tank is a 60 cube that houses 2 large True Indo Rose Anemone's (added another today!!!), and a GTBA. And i have a red haddoni on order. And I actually hope that they get terribly big and consume my tank. At least my clowns will be happy. There the best. Good luck with whatever you do.

[brandon7491]

thankyou slakker and cartman5579 for all your advice and help on this matter i really do appreciate having this dicussion and your inputs. i will think more and do more research before i dive head first into this. so thxs again to all who have put their input in this thread.

[cartman5579]

slakker - haven't you seen tanks on rc ( i know i have, so i would assume you have as well) that are just consumed with multiple nems, and sometimes multiple species of nems. And i've seen it don't very successfully also. You say capable of reaching 24" but if you ever go on wetweb it specifically states that one in captivity will never really reach close to that size, although there are few exceptions.

And why assume he's not doing research,... isn't he doing research by being on here and asking for opinions? I just don't understand why you are such a critic in every thread i see you in. I'd prefer you to post your pics, i recall you being called out on your critisism before and them showing pics of your current tank... that made you shut up.

[brandon7491]

hey cartman can u post a pic of ur cube if u have any time?

[E.J. Coral]

Originally posted by Slakker
Move the anemone to another tank, thereby creating more stress for the anemone and potentially pounding the nail in the coffin.
You make your point as if you're the first person to ever try this. There's a reason people are giving you the advice you're getting, we've seen the failures in other tanks, we've read the research (Yes, people do ACTUAL research about things like this.)

I never said anything about movement. My point is not that anemones travel large distances, though I'm not sure how on earth would you know that they don't move. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, I haven't done any research on it myself, but I'll bet you didn't either.
ONE anemone capable of reaching 24 inches in diameter should be in a tank that is more than 12.5 inches wide, and two anemones that can potentially reach that size really need more space.

I absolutely think that multiple anemones can be kept in larger tanks, but yours just isn't sufficient to support them. Since you're trying to pull the "ocean" card here, do you really think your 29 gallons of aquarium is as stable as the 3.612 x 10²º (give or take) gallons of the ocean?

I still want to see a 24" BTA and to hear about what anemones that you have kept ....

[brandon7491]

i was never invoking the quote on quote "ocean card" its impossibel for the biggest aquariams in the world to maitan the stableness of the ocean. have u ever kept an anemone or anything else besides xenia and frog spawn? can u even back up what ur talking about with experience or trial and error? im not trying to be rude here im just kinda suprised at the agressivness you are giving off. i would though love to c 1 rbta that has gotten to 24"in captivity and wonder how long it took to get there. probably years and years.

[cartman5579]

Sure, but its a work in progress,....

[Slakker]

I don't really think my funding, or lack thereof, is any indication of the merit of what I'm saying. Tuition isn't cheap, you know, and things like food and books happen to have priority.

I have absolutely seen those tanks, however, most, if not all (that I recall, anyways) that have success in the long term are larger than 29 gallons. As you said, there are exceptions, but that doesn't mean that the exception should be attempted as common practice.

You're talking about your tank, a 60 cube with three (or is it 4?) E. Quadricolor...more than twice the water volume, much more favorable dimensions, and one species of anemone. In my mind, that doesn't make you any more qualified to dispense advice than you say I am. It's pretty well documented that E. Quad will coexist with others of the same species peaceably.

However, the same can't necessarily be said for E. Quad and H. Crispa. In my opinion, it's risky to keep two anemones of differing species in a tank that size. It's plausible that both anemones could grow to such a large size that they'll be touching not only corals, but each other, and that's just as dangerous to the anemones as it would be to corals. Not only that, but the chances of allelopathy are still there, and with one anemone in there already being in rough shape, the odds just get worse by adding yet another one for it to have to contend with.

I wasn't questioning Brandon's research in general. I commend him for asking questions, however, I really think it's safe to assume that neither he nor I have done much research on how much an anemone travels in the wild. I'm not sure anyone has, actually.

You can try to make this a measuring match if you'd like. You win, you've got a nicer tank than me. I don't care if you have a 3,000 gallon system with 500 anemones in it...misinformation is misinformation, and misinformation leads to failures, which leads to people leaving the hobby, and that's not good for anyone.

[cartman5579]

i'm not saying my tank is nice at all, i don't show my tank cause i hope people think its nice. I show it because I think its nice and i want to show off what i'm doing. With that being said i never said i have a better tank than you. Beauty and sometimes success are in the eye of the beholder. I will continue to try things in my tank that probably shouldn't be done, but i like trying it, and if it fails, than it fails. I have yet to have anything die (with the exception of fish from ich) in my tank due to me having two things together that shouldn't be together. Anyways, i'm not giving him information that i believe to be a perfect answer...i'm just telling him what i have seen and done myself. I had a pair of percs and a pair of pink skunks in this same tank and they loved eachother. That shouldn't be done either but it worked for me. Somethings work for some people that don't work for others.

[Slakker]

Absolutely, but you have to admit that your 60 cube is much better suited for multiple species of anemone than a standard 29 gallon tank is.

Multiple species absolutely can be done, has been done, but probably shouldn't be done in such a small tank. That's my point, and I think it's a perfectly valid one. Brandon is doing more research before he moves forward, and that's enough for me.

I hate to see creatures collected from the wild lose their lives unnecessarily just because someone wants to experiment. The creatures we keep have just as much a right to live as any of us do, so in my opinion, if you want more than one species of anemone in your aquarium, you should do everything you can to provide a suitable environment for those anemones.

With the coral reefs in danger, why take unnecessary risks with anemones when there are plenty of people with experience that can be used as a guide to success?

[Reefynewby]

sigh*sigh*sigh*
WHY must fellow reefers turn into anemones. Brandon, THINK before you speak. You came into this thread fully expecting the flame and ASKING for advice. What WE gave you is perfectly SUITABLE ADVICE. Don't come unless you want our 2C. The only thing that makes sense now is to upsize immediately, because anyone here on RC knows we all say "ooh ooh i'm gonna upsize in the near future" and it ends up being years away or never at all. and your second option is to get rid of an anemone to a more suitable keeper. I have a crispa and a neon green BTA in my *60* and i'm struggling to keep things stable, and this is w/out the addition of any sps. For someone like you juggling high school, "girls", high school, reefing, and high school, you prbly don't need any extra difficulty. In all of our opinions it's quite obvious that we recommend you leave the ocean as it is, and not kill an anemone, and likely your whole tank. Read the thread about sea apples. Dead things, frankly, are not a pretty site, especially w/ your sps. You and your family can have a tankful of dead $$$ in less than a day. So just remember to think about anything you do before fighting and arguing with people who have done much much more research and are only trying to help you.

AND btw, i'd suggest you not mess w/ slakker. AS i've seen him around quite a lot i'm quite sure he knows much much much! about reefing. Most likely (unless you're a marine biologist etc.) he knows more than you, and even possibly in that case.

So as i have repeated over and over, think before you speak, and ESPECIALLY, purchase.

[cartman5579]

Ahhhh, now wasn't that a breath of fresh air.

Can we all just go on peacefully now?

[Reefynewby]

RAWR!!!
if we must, but remember, everything you do influences life on earth, and what your children grandchildren, and great grandchildren will see. This may end up a world w/out any anemones, but its all up to you... so make wise decisions, and as little children may say,

use your noodle.

[brandon7491]

.... taht is a little bit to the extreme reefnewby taht they might end up without anemones.. i was never intending the argument or n e thing of that kind of measure. i have thanked slakker numerous times for his input on this matter. but u say the reefs are endanger, then y are we even doing this hobby? we should dump our coral,fish,invers,ect back into the ocean. u are jsut as guilty as me for keeping any marine animal if our reefs are endanger. obviously they are not that endanger because we are keeping them in glass boxes.

[Slakker]

Brandon,
Our reefs are in danger. Our whole ecosystem is in danger. Those are the facts. I'm not going to go in depth on this, but there has been some research in the past couple of years revealing that many of the reefs around the world have had a decline in growth and overall health.

Whether you believe in global warming or not, the oceans are getting warmer, and the higher temperatures are causing corals to bleach in many of our reefs. This site has a very simple glance at some of what is endangering the world's reefs, broken down location by location: http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/blue-planet/map/map.html

Look, I'm not saying you're a bad person for keeping a reef tank. That's ridiculous. This hobby has actually led to a lot of discoveries that have been helpful in conservation efforts. What I am saying is, why take a long shot trying something that has been previously unsuccessful when you could do it right the first time? At 16, I didn't think much about the future either, but the sad truth is, it doesn't look great for our coral reefs.

I will say that my fish are captive bred and my corals are all fragged off of already captive colonies, so my tank is fairly low impact as far as that goes.

[Toddrtrex]

Couple of things,

I would not keep a BTA ( of any color ) in an SPS tank, I am in the process of removing my BTAs from my tank --- they will sting and kill SPS. And they will move when you least expect it and/or clone and the clone will move.

You say that your water parameters are perfect, I would like to see the actual numbers, please.

I noticed film on the top of your water in one of the pictures, might want to point a powerhead towards the surface to break it up, or get one of those skimmer boxes for your skimmer.

Now, for getting a 3rd anemone for that tank, I personally think that is not the best idea. There is chance that there is some chemical warfare going on b/t the sebea and the BTA right now, think it would be a bad idea to add to the stress that the sebea is currently under.

Anemones add to the bioload to a tank, and with the amount that you are feeding yours I see water quality issues in the future, and some will be hard to test for -- DOCs come to mind.

The sebea will get too large for a 29 -- years ago I had one that was over 18" across, took up a third of my 75.

Now, if you have your mind set on getting the 3rd one, at least wait until the sebea is healthy.

[brandon7491]

salinity 1.025,phos-0,nitrate-0,nitrite-0, ph 8.2,ca 415,alk 10.5,magnesium 1350,amonia-0. i have decieded on not getting a 3rd anemone i will continue to stock my tank with zoos and save up for a geo calcium reactor. tomorrow i will get a tunze nano stream and point a maxi jet at the top of the water to get the film off. thankyou for all ur advices

[brandon7491]

also will a nem sting and kill a soft coral or can the both co exsist?

[cartman5579]

brandon, you took all of that like a champ... i'm so proud of you! ... some of these guys can really beat you up.

[Slakker]

Sounds like a good plan to me. When stocking with zoos and the like, be mindful of the anemones and try to give them a buffer zone to avoid any stinging battles. (I'm sure you know that.)

Pointing the powerhead at the top of the water will help some, but another thing that can really help is skimming from the top when you do a water change. To do this I use a cup held just barely below the surface so that the top water and the surface film flows into the cup to be discarded. I've also used a paper towel to absorb it. Seems to work pretty good...for a couple days, anyways...lol

[Toddrtrex]

Originally posted by brandon7491
also will a nem sting and kill a soft coral or can the both co exsist?

Take this the right way, that is too general of a question. And what I mean by that, is that it depends on both the anemone type and the soft coral type. So, if you have specific ones in mind, that would help. I can assume the either your Sebea or your BTA, but what type of soft coral.

I can only speak for my experiences, most times the anemone will sting/kill the soft coral. Though I do remember a time when my BTA was affected by a soft coral. I wish I could remember the soft coral, but it was years ago and my memory isn't as great as it used to by.

And BTW, good choice on holding off on the anemone.

When I mentioned getting a surface skimmer box for your skimmer I was referring to this

NOTE---- check this whole page since I don't know which pump you have with it, about half way down the page.

[Reefynewby]

ah... JOY to the world, and feel proud of yourself. Go buy yourself an icy cold one, and enjoy. Anemones will - in general, sting and most likely kill anything they can touch over time - so it's a good mind to give them plenty of space to near corals. especially sps

[Slakker]

Originally posted by Reefynewby
Go buy yourself an icy cold one, and enjoy.

A cold juice box, you mean? Maybe some milk?