Two Little Fishes phostban 150,

[five.five-six]

here is a note I just sent to reefgeek, I think it covers it all:


As i write this I can not stop shaking my head. I am stunned in utter dismay. In my 30 years of keeping aquaria, I have never come across a more deficient product. I am so disappointed, I have heard so many nice things about reefgeek and had high hopes that there was someone in the mail order industry that actually cared about the hobbyist. That can not possibly be true of a company that would put a phosban 150 in a box and mail it to a customer. The sad part about all this is that I had received this as a gift from my father for Christmas and will be putting it in the trash

If you are wondering why I hesitate to mention this product by name in the same sentence as skilter, seaclone and deep six it is because those produces so outclass this one that it would be an insult to they're manufactures.

The design and manufacture of this product is so shameful that it is an embarrassment to he industry. For starters, the "sponges" are not dense enough to be used for a mesh mod, in fact the pours in the mesh supplied are so big that palletized GAC can get through, and GFO falls right through like water through a strainer. Next, the input and output elbows leak with the slightest pressure, combine that with the fact that they only articulate 90 degrees, the weight of the pump has the tendency to pull the elbow off the reactor, one might think, this is all well and good, I will just use this product in the sump, however the label is made of paper and god knows what sort of glue they used to affix it.

So what they have successfully designed was a product that without heavy modification, if used as directed, will spill tank water all over your floor and dump GFO allover your sump

incidentally, I own the Kent marine version of this unit which I am very happy with


regards
mark

[hottuna]

all of julian sprung's products are just the same = crap..

[oldimpala]

That's odd.....

I run 3 of them; two with GAC (Pelletized now, was crushed for years), and one with Warner Marine Phosar; I love the little things. Bang for the buck, it's probably one of the most cost effective pieces of equipment on my tank....

I do have to changes the sponges on the Phosphate media once a year, for $2 or so, but other than that, it's maintnence free....


-Andy

PS: You can double up the sponges, again available for about $2 from Premium Aquatics, if media's leaking thru.....

[scotmc]

This is a first. It may be a POS for you. I have had zero problems with it. Along with a lot of other people.

[trmiv]

You've got to be kidding me, you actually sent that email to Reef Geek?

I've used both the original model of the phosban reactor and the current one and haven't had the issues you're describing because of the reactor. I have had GFO dust leak all over the sump, but that wasn't the reactor's fault, it was due to the massively dusty Dr's Foster and Smith Phospure I used. I never had that issue with Phosban, Phoslock or Phosar used in the Phosban reactor.

[bdare]

I love my Phosban 150!

In computers we have a saying PBKAC (Problem Between Keyboard And Chair). Sounds like we may need a new acronym for fish tanks...

[opiumpipez]

i think this might be more user error than product quality.

the 90 degree elbows do not leak at all even when they are bent due to the weight from a pump.

also, i have used phosban, rowa and phoslock and havent had any type of leeching.

just wondering..but did you fill the ENTIRE canister with gfo? the only issue i can see is if you filled it up too much and this the upflow caused the gfo to permeate the top mesh sponge.
also, what do you mean by
"For starters, the "sponges" are not dense enough to be used for a mesh mod"

are you meshmodding a needlewheel pump? where is this coming from?

[fatrip]

hey if your throwing it out ill take it and pay shipping...LMK...

[killagoby]

I totally disagree with the above statements. I've seen the Kent product in action. My LFS has one. It leaks and it is brittle plastic that can break at the 90 elbows. The TLF reactor was recomended by that LFS to me. I made the right choice.

1. Use the pads for what they were made for.

2. Don't run the flow any higher than 50GPH through it. This will stop the media from running through it.

3. Use a longer tube for the connection, so the pump rests on the bottom of your sump. This will help stop the weight of your pump pull off the connections.

Problem solved...

[Cove Beach]

I run a pair of them on my system, one for carbon and the other GFO. Since i run mine off of a tap on my return with a ball valve and they get shut down at least once a day for feeding, i found that somehow all the media in both of them got pushed to the top along with the foam. To fix this i used 2 zip ties tightened around the center tube and then cut the tail so it stuck out to the edge of the foam. Works great and i have had no leaks period.

[ElDiabloPollo]

I use one externally with no issues what so ever. Sounds like user error.

[Craig Lambert]

It's an excellent product. Some of your remarks make it pretty clear that you have set it up wrong. "The weight of the pump"? There shouldn't be any weight from the pump pulling on the tube. It should be resting on the bottom of your sump. You are also likely running far to much flow. It should be 25-30gph so the top level of the media barly tumbles in just a few areas.

If the gfo is falling down through the sponge, you have the pump connected to the output rather than the input. I have no doubt that you have set the product up incorrectly. Hundreds/Thousands of these are in daily use with no issues.

[DarG]

The TLF 150 is a $5 product with a 7X mark-up but so is most everything else in the hobby. The are known for leaking after a while too. But, I agree with the others. This is a cheap product that works fine for the majority of users. You either got a bad one, which is possible, or, as the others mentioned, you arent doing something right, which is more likely. Maybe even a combination of both.

The press fit elbows on mine do not leak. The sponges, which arent very dense as you state, do indeed trap the media fine and the unit works exactly as it is supposed to. Like others have mentioned, you must be overloading it and/or pushing to much flow through it and/or running the flow in through the output. Hanging the pump off of it is a mistake as well.

You had to know that these were popular units, maybe you should have asked for help or atleast asked if others had the same issues before slamming Reef Geek for selling the product. Seems like it would a much more appropriate email for the manufacturer, not Reef Geek.

Anyway, this board is good for the passage of information. I think a thread asking about others experiences with this unit and stating problems and the frustration you are having with the one you bought would have accomplished much more for you than posting an after the fact thread only to find out that the issues that you have experienced with your 150 are in the least uncommon, and much more likely caused in large part by your own mis-use.

[relaxednature]

I got one for christmas too, and mine works great..
no issues here.

[five.five-six]

thanks, I think you hit about everything in your post so I pick you to reply

Originally posted by killagoby
I totally disagree with the above statements. I've seen the Kent product in action. My LFS has one. It leaks and it is brittle plastic that can break at the 90 elbows. The TLF reactor was recomended by that LFS to me. I made the right choice.

1. Use the pads for what they were made for.

it says right on the box "phosban reactor" but these pads are not meant for phosban?

2. Don't run the flow any higher than 50GPH through it. This will stop the media from running through it.

I am using a maxijet 404 adjustable from 20-106 GPH I run it at 1-3 clicks up, just enough to get a fluid surface

3. Use a longer tube for the connection, so the pump rests on the bottom of your sump. This will help stop the weight of your pump pull off the connections.

Problem solved...

the unit is in a sump that is only 12 inches across, but even at 18 inches, the effluent comes off the reactor parallel to the water surface, just the pressure from the hose bending is enough to contort the elbow. I can see it popping off real ez... if you have one of these, may I recommend zip-ties

can I fix it.. sure, the point is, his is not a skimmer where you get to modd it to get better performance, you have to do a bunch of stuff just to keep it from leaking

if you have the older version, I understand it is much better, just a pita removing the 147 nylon screws to change the media. the quick release top on this unit is pretty cool

[killagoby]

The reactor comes with a plastic clamp to keep the tubing on the inlet connection. You might need more flexible 5/8ths tubing. Can you post pics so we can see it?

Also, the media should not touch the top pad. I don't understand the statment, "it says right on the box "phosban reactor" but these pads are not meant for phosban?"

[five.five-six]

it does not touch the top pad but it falls right through the bottom pad

I don't understand the statment, "it says right on the box "phosban reactor" but these pads are not meant for phosban?"

you said:
1. Use the pads for what they were made for.

and i am saying I am using them for phosban...


perhaps i am missing somthing, do I need to by special phosban pads to use phosban in a phosban reactor?

are the pads that come with a phosban reactor not meant to be used with phosban? I am confused

also i think that clamp was intended to be use with the valve, there are 4 connections that need clamps, the 2 on the top of the reactor are the worst.

the best idea I have heard so far was to dump the elbows completely and just run hose straight to the lid. this works but I do not know about your, but my sump if pretty crowded as is and I am not all that interested in a adding 2 large radius's of hose in my sump to keep the hose from kinking

[mpdharley]

To add my .02. I use two of the reactors and they work great for me. I use Kent carbon in one and Seachem phosguard in the other. The pads work for both of those and the phosguard is quite small.

For the connections, I don't use the supplied elbows, simply because I wouldn't trust any connection that was clamped, screwed or glued down. I also didn't have to add that much hose to ensure that they don't crimp. The hose I'm using is standard black vinyl tubing. It doesn't stay perfectly round, but it also isn't crimped to a point that I am losing any real flow. I can also say that the reactors and the Phosguard have definitely cleared up my algae issues.

All in all, for my setup, they have been more than worth the money spent on them.

[Engine 7]

I use two of them with no problems. As long as I rinse the Phosban well, I dont get leeching of the product into the tank. The only other way to get the media into the tank is to blast it with higher water pressure into the top sponge which is impossible if using the correct pump at the correct pressure.
I really think five.five-six either got a bad product with many flaws or is one of many people in this hobby that cannot figure out how to use something correctly and thus has problems with the product and blames the manufacturer. I dont mean to be rude but it is commen practice to see this behavior with skimmers and calcium reactors. People dont use them correctly and then get on here and call them pita's pr pos's and slam them.
five.five-six, dont throw it out, I'll take it and pay you shipping plus a few bucks for your trouble.

[flyguy7150]

Originally posted by five.five-six
it does not touch the top pad but it falls right through the bottom pad



you said:
1. Use the pads for what they were made for.

and i am saying I am using them for phosban...


perhaps i am missing somthing, do I need to by special phosban pads to use phosban in a phosban reactor?

are the pads that come with a phosban reactor not meant to be used with phosban? I am confused

I think he said that cause in the original post you said, "the "sponges" are not dense enough to be used for a mesh mod,"

But i have one of these reactors and ordered a 2nd one, one for GFO one for GAC. So far its been good to me, just keep playing around with it. How do you have the sponges inside it? The lower sponge is it above the red plate or below it?? Same with the top one, is it above or below the red plate.

In mine the sponge on the bottom is below the red plate, and the sponge on the top is above the red plate.

[oldimpala]

The sponges, per my usage, are between the red plates, and the media....

Based on his description, I'd bet he has the In/Out backwards, that'd push media DOWN through the bottom sponge, and up through the center tube. And, explain lots of his headaches...


556- This is an Upflow style reactor, to reduce clogging....

As far as the rubber ends; I can see the paranoia, but believe me, I run 3 of them, non-stop in my tank, and have for years. No leaks from the elbows. Ever. And I don't use the clamp provided, at all. I do run Eheim 12/16 tubing, which gives a nice, snug fit, on those fittings, though. I've had floods in my day, but never from one of these.

As far as leaking goes; I did replace one weeping o-ring, on a unit I used to filter O3 rich water, but I blame that on the O3...

And, internally, the old units are identical to the new; there's just a flange, and about a dozen screws. I have an old unit on a shelf, ready for my QT... the only difference is in the top, and the new ones are vastly better.

-Andy

[kdblove_99]

I also use 2 of these reactors and i also use the supplied elbows. I have never had any problems with it, never.

I can paypal you $20 for yours

[USC-fan]

If you are using 3 "clicks" on the 404 you have too much flow. I use the 1st or 2nd.

Sound like user error and you should have ask for some set up help before doing all this.

[five.five-six]

no, it is set for 1 click right now, it is on a 7.5 gallon setup right now sh ther is only 10 grams of GFO mixed with about 50 grams of GAC. my 100 gal has 100 grams of gfo mixed with ~100 grams GAC and needs 2-3 clicks

the screw on top is nice, much easyer than the kent unit.

those elbos are junk and the sponge is worthless for GFO

basicly it is a DIY starter kit and should be markketed as such.

I may turn it into a skimmer.. I think anyone who runs one of these out of sump is running a high risk of a wet floor

how about that paper label? how do you scrape it off if you want to use it in sump? or do you just hope the glue, ink and paper do not foul your tank?

[killagoby]

The rubber elbows are why I bought it. Much more user friendly than Kent's version.

I've never had the media "fall through" the bottom pad.