|
|
|
|
#26
08/02/2006, 09:25 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Oh OK. I'm back with you now.
Lets test the big three before we procede to see where you are at. |
|
#27
08/02/2006, 09:34 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Billy, I've been trying to keep my alk 10 or above to help with hair algae. I heard it helped to have higher alk, even up to 14, will kill the hair algae. I've never been able to keep it that high, though. Actually when it's 11 or 12 I'm happy.
Tangman, when I do a WC I change 20-30% every two weeks. It depends on your bioload of course. Maybe a few big water changes would help you start over with better levels. I've heard people say to do that with your levels are out of whack. I'm starting to change more water, 30% every week, because I've been getting some nitrates I've never had (my fish are growing). Kay
__________________
Kay |
|
#28
08/02/2006, 10:01 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#29
08/02/2006, 10:46 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Thanks Billy. I'll check them tomorrow before I dose. I was out tonight doing a little guitar playing so it was late when I got home. I did add the 150ml of each though before I left.
Kay, I've done some big water changes in the past also but not recently. I did a 25% one about a month ago. Most of this has been battling my hair algae. It's under control now that I added a phos reactor and some Rowa. That stuff is like magic in a jar. It's discoloring and what I've syphoned out it not growing back. |
|
#30
08/02/2006, 10:48 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Bass guitar player myself.
 Yes lets see those numbers tommorrow. 
|
|
#31
08/02/2006, 11:18 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Just something to notice that may potentially be affecting both of you.
When using "baked" baking soda, making large additions may increase the PH beyond the point of abiotic precipitation that may give the impression of high consumption. I will suggest to monitor the PH during the addition and do not let it go higher than 8.4 If it is already higher than 8.4 try using the stright baking soda receipe recommended for high PH tanks.
__________________
Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. |
|
#32
08/03/2006, 12:43 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
A note for tangman:
your consumption seem to be higher than normal specially with only a clam and one frag. here is what I came up with: a) 70 ml for several weeks and dKh stay at 7 That is a dayly consumption of 1.3 dKh per day That is high b) 100 ml for two days and 150 ml for three days for a total of 650 ml in five days, dKh went from 7 to 7.5 dKh That is a consumption of 2.3 dKh per day That is very high, Was there precipitation? c) stop alkalinity addition at 9.5 and dropped to 7.5 in 24 hours (Added Magnesium) That is 2 dKh in 24 hours That is high, was there precipitation? A couple of factors may be contributing to it. a) The tank still has heavy nitrification (relatively new). How long has your tank been set up? b) The supplement might not be full strenght. This could happen if your baking soda is not fully baked. The PH increasing only by 0.3 units during addition indicate that in part the solution is still baking soda. Try baking the powder at 350*F instead of 300 and do it for 11/2 hr rather than 1 hr. c) You might have had a case of abiotic precipitation when adding the Magnesium. This could be my recommendation for narrowing down the posibilities: a) Run the consumption test again but adding absolutely no supplement of any kind and without making a wter change. Test wait 24 hours and test again. If possible run the tests twice before and after to insure that the readings are right. b) Prepare a new stock solution of baked baking soda insuring it is fully baked. Higher temperature or longer time will not affect the powder but insure is fully converted and all moisture and CO2 is driven out of it. c) When adding the supplement, do not add more than 75 ml every 20 minutes, this to reduce the chances of localized precipitation. insure you do it in a high flow area and add it slowly. d) Watch out your PH during addition, once the b soda is fully baked it will increase more than the 0.3 units. Do not let it exceed 8.4
__________________
Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. |
|
#33
08/03/2006, 06:33 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Bass huh? Cool. I'm a classical guitarist.
Ok Billy. Here are the numbers. It's been 24 hrs since my last 150 ml dose. Ph - 8.2 Alk - 8.0 Calc - 440 Mag - 1350 jd - here are a few answers. You've blown me away. My tank is over 9 years old but it was converted to a reef in 2002 so the DSB and live rock in 4 years old. Based on my test kits, my ph is going from around 8.1 8.4 when I add the supplement. I do have some precip in my sump from some earlier dosings where I added the calc to fast behind the alk. I have cleaned the glass and it has not precipitated again that I can tell. I add the alk to my sump and the calc in the main tank in front of the SEIO. I'm not sure about the amount I add making a diff. I only tested it once after dosing. All other tests were before dosing and whether dosing 70, 100 or 150 it always seems to be in the sevens. |
|
#34
08/03/2006, 07:01 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Difficult to determine consumption or conlcude that the addition is not making a difference unless you have an start and end test period without supplementation in between. Of course you can always use trial and error so then just keep adding 150 every 24 hours and see if it holds adjust as necessary.
__________________
Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. |
|
#35
08/03/2006, 07:58 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
tang, OK your alk was 8.0 at 6:30pm. Now (like JD said) dont add anything and test tommorrow night at 6:30p. Lets see what your tank is using per day.
Other parameters look good. Lets get a line on that alk. |
|
#37
08/03/2006, 10:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
tang, leaving for the weekend tommorrow. Post anyway, hopefully JD will check up on it. We've been following this so keep us up to date. See ya Monday.
|
|
#39
08/03/2006, 11:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
 Thanks Jose. But my thumb doesnt go up and down like yours.
|
|
#42
08/04/2006, 05:54 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
OK we are getting there. To calculate exactly the amount of supplement to compensate that consumption lets try to narrow down how much water is in your system.
you mention a 90 gallon tank, how many pound of rock and sand do you have? What size Sump if any and how much is it filled, Half? one third? Any refugium or frag tank? If so what is their capacity?
__________________
Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. |
|
#43
08/04/2006, 06:29 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Ok. The tank is a 90 gallon with a 4 inch DSB so it is 18 x 48 x 20 which calculates to right at 75 gallons. There is 100 lbs of fiji live rock. I have 29 gallon sump divided up into 3 sections. My overflow volume calculated to 8 gallons so it has 21 gallons of water. In this 21 gallons of water there is an AquaC EV-180 skimmer in the sump, a Mag 7 skimmer pump and a Eheim 1262 return pump. I'm guess that probably cuts the volume down to about 18 gallons.
So 75 + 18 = 93 Gallons - displacement of 100 lbs of Fiji live rock which is anyones guess. In looking at the tank, I would guess it take up at least 1/5 the volume if not a little more. I guess my big question is why does it hang pretty consistent if it is 8 or less, but if you dose it up to 9 it drops back down in one night. Also, should I dose again tonight? Does that help? |
|
#45
08/04/2006, 08:29 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Sure it helps. Usually when Alkalinity and Calcium are higher the rate of calcification increases and so the consumption but normally it does not increase enough to explain the large consumption you have been seeing unless there has been abiotic precipitation or the supplement is not concentrated enough. OK by my calculatorions your net water volume is around 87 gallons total. Tank= 84.3 Discounting panel thinckness Sump, piping and equipment = 20 200 pounds of Rock and Sand @ 50% porosity= minus 17 To increase Alkalinity from 7.7 to 8.0 the requirement of Randys formula 1 will be: 18.6 ml/day If we increase alkalinity to 9 dKh it should stay at about 25 ml/day of supplement Can you run another test to see if the solution is strong enough? I want you to add 40 ml of formula, test the alkalinity right before the addition and after 15 minutes of the addition to see how much it increases and post this result. lets see if it increase by 0.6 to about 8.3 After that, if it behaves as expected we will supplement another 40 ml and test again 15 minutes after to see if with both additions we bring it close to around 9 then wait 24 hours and add 25 ml every day and testing every 24 hours before the addition (should be at 8.6 to 8.7 before adding) to see if it holds at that level. Crossing fingers...
__________________
Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. |
|
#46
08/04/2006, 11:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Cool! It was a little late tonight so I added the 18 ml in hope that it maintains so I can do the test tomorrow that you ask. It may be a little later tomorrow being it's the weekend and my wife usually drags me off somewhere.
|
|
#47
08/04/2006, 11:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
jdieck,
Ok, I have 109 gallons tank ( fill to the top less 1, 18x23.5x60), a sum 60 gallons (14x16x48), 3" sand bed, roughly 100 lbs coral sand, 140 lbs rock. I think my true volum is 100 gallons at the end. My Cal reading was 360, at the first day test at LFS. bought the Warner Marine reef pure. Added 30 ml at the ist day, 10ml at the 2nd, 10 mlat the 3rd day. Today, measured Cal at 370, Alk at 9.6. Added another 30 ml Cal after test. pH stayed at 8.1-8.2. I am trying to buy stock to make Randy 2 part formula #1. Meanwhile, any suggestion? 2 mushoom, 1 brain brown , 1 flowerpot, 1 brown frawn egg I have 1Y tang, 1 clown, 2 damsel, 2 turbo snails, and 1 strawberry. Strawberry bought 2 weeks ago, disapeared the second day, for week, showed up 1 night for 1 hour, and disappeared till now. Do I suppose to lift all the rock to find him? thanks, vincent |
|
#48
08/05/2006, 12:21 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
__________________
Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. |
|
#49
08/05/2006, 12:41 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Vincent, assuming your sump 50 % full I get roughtly 112 gallons.
Main tank = 109.8 Sump = 23.2 (If the measurements are the ones shown it is a 46 gal sump. If not I am off) 240 lbs rock and sand = minus 20.5 Net= 112.5 Warenr Marine Reef Pure is a good Calcium only supplement and as you noticed it does not affect neither PH nor Alkalinity. In total you added 50 ml which is enough to increase your Calcium by only about 16 ppm. so your Calcium should have read 376 ppm assuming no consumption, as it actually read 370 after three or four days it means that considering the testing margin of error you basically have no Calcium consumption. You can add another 160 ml of the calcium supplement to rise your Calcium to 420 ppm. Your Alkalinity level is OK so once your calcium is up in balance you can supplement and maintain both with Randys formula, or you can get any two part supplements like CalxMax, Kent's A&B, TLF A and B or B-Ionic while your consumption is relatively small. Once your consumption picks up it might take a good amount of supplements and then you may want to consider dripping Kalk, a Kalk reactor or a Calcium Reactor but your consumption will tell.
__________________
Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. |
|
#50
08/05/2006, 01:23 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Hello Jdieck,
I have never cal the sum, but the person who gave it to me told it 60 gallons. Anyway, forgot to tell you that the sum is 2/3 full. When the pum is off, it will full to the top - 2". In this case, my true volum should be around 120 gallon?. I live in Southern Cal, so it will take a week for the Dowflake come. My testing may cause error, since it hard to determin what is the fluid changing from purple to clear light blue ( salifert's instruction). However, I notice that once it became blue, it wuoldn't change color anymore, even I tried to drop a few more droops. vincent |
|
|
Linear Mode
