An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement Article Posted - Page 4

psimitry · #76 03/20/2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Easy solution:

Give gallon #2 to to your firend.

How much solid in the baking soda? Maybe warm it more. In general, don't worry about a little precipitate. There can be some insoluble materials in both parts. Just leave it on the bottom if possible.

In truth, I don't have a huge preference on giving either gallon.

However, I don't want to give him the cloudy one (or keep it myself) if it's going to aversely affect his or my tank.

As far as the baking soda solution, I had the heater cranked up to 85. As far as the solid, it's probably about a 16th (maybe an 8th) of an inch on the bottom of the milk jug.

jgreen1025 · #77 03/20/2006, 01:30 PM

Randy,

I've just begun using your 2-part recipe this weekend - thank you for sharing such a simple and inexpensive calcium/alkalinity additive. Here in SoCal the home improvement stores don't sell snow-melt products, but I was able to find calcium chloride at a place called Leslie's Pool Supply. It was packaged with their label but the MDS sheet for it said "Dow" at the top so I believe it is the same as the Dow pellets. When I mixed them up the baked baking soda took overnight to completely disolve, but both gallons are clear.

What is the best way to add the two parts to the tank? Can I add them together to the freshwater I use to top-off the tank or should they be added to the tank separately? I notice the freshwater starts to look a little cloudy when I begin adding the second one if I put them in the top-off water together. Or should I mix it with saltwater from the tank? (Or am I worrying too much about the "proper" way to add it!?!) Thanks again for your help.

John

psimitry · #78 03/20/2006, 01:42 PM

I'm certainly no expert in something like this, but most 2-part solutions I've seen say to add the calcium part and then like 5 minutes later (after the first part has had time to completely dissolve), add the alkalinity part.

But Randy's recipe may be different.

katlongo · #79 03/20/2006, 01:50 PM

[/QUOTE]I had a powerhead stirring the baked baking soda and water for about 5 hours with a heater in it (as per the "heating the mixture will speed dissolution) and it still had quite a bit of undissolved baking soda on the bottom of the bucket. [/QUOTE]

I've found that if I don't add all of the baking soda at once it works the best.

I fill my jug with about 1/2 gallon of warm/hot water
Add half the baking soda about 1/2 cup at a time
Shake to mix in between
Add more water (almost all, but enough to allow for more displacement)
Add the rest of the baking soda 1/2 cup at a time
Shake to mix in between
Then fill with water

I haven't had any problems with chunking by doing this.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #80 03/20/2006, 04:05 PM

Can I add them together to the freshwater I use to top-off the tank or should they be added to the tank separately?

They need to be added independently to the tank itself. One can be dissolved into top off water, but not both. Neither should be mixed with tank water outside the tank. Mixing the two parts together allows precipitation of calcium carbonate.

As far as the baking soda solution, I had the heater cranked up to 85.

You can heat it all the way to boiling, if necessary, and if the container can take it. But that solid may just be insoluble materials.

jgreen1025 · #81 03/21/2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
They need to be added independently to the tank itself. One can be dissolved into top off water, but not both. Neither should be mixed with tank water outside the tank. Mixing the two parts together allows precipitation of calcium carbonate.

Thanks. That's what I was afraid was happening when I saw it clouding up. Now I know how to do it right.

John

Randy Holmes-Farley · #82 03/21/2006, 03:06 PM

Good luck.

psimitry · #83 03/22/2006, 11:58 AM

Well they say if you can't beat something into submission, get a bigger stick.

Turns out that in the case of getting baking soda to dissolve, it's true.

I pulled out my traditional stirring powerhead rated at about 200GPH and dropped in my soon-to-be sump return powerhead rated at over 1000GPH.

That did it. Within an hour, the water was clear with no precipitate on the bottom of the bucket.

Should be good to start dosing tomorrow.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #84 03/22/2006, 12:34 PM

Good to hear!

psimitry · #85 03/23/2006, 09:40 PM

Ok - so I'm pretty much ready to begin dosing.

Currently my tank is showing readings of:

pH: 8.05 (Seachem)
ALK: 2.5 meq/L (Seachem)
Ca: 413 PPM (Salifert)
SG: 1.026
Temp: 80F

In a 50 gallon tank, according to the calculator, I need to dose 150ML of the ALK supplement in order to get it in the proper range. Can I assume I do NOT want to dose all of this at once?

Randy Holmes-Farley · #86 03/24/2006, 08:17 AM

That is a pretty big dose. Bigger than my recommended starting dose:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php#15

What levels are you targeting? What recipe?

You need not boost it all the way up in one day if you are starting well below your target. Working up to it is a better way to get a routine dose.

If you really need that much, it can probably be dosed all at once, if you have a sump or other high stirring place away from delicate organisms to mix it in. Let one part be thoroughly mixed in before adding the second part.

psimitry · #87 03/24/2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
That is a pretty big dose. Bigger than my recommended starting dose:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php#15

What levels are you targeting? What recipe?

You need not boost it all the way up in one day if you are starting well below your target. Working up to it is a better way to get a routine dose.

If you really need that much, it can probably be dosed all at once, if you have a sump or other high stirring place away from delicate organisms to mix it in. Let one part be thoroughly mixed in before adding the second part.

I'm using recipe #1

Targeting alk of 4 meq/L with calcium @ about 415.

Edit: I don't have a sump yet, but I should have one this weekend.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #88 03/24/2006, 11:15 AM

I would work up to that alkalinity by starting at 50 mL each per day, and slowly raise it as necessary over a week or two. Add it to the highest flow area that you have to keep it away from corals before it mixes well. You can, of course, split up the doses as you want or need.

psimitry · #89 03/24/2006, 06:26 PM

So if I'm reading right, (since I don't yet have a sump) I could essentially dose 25ML in the morning and 25ML in the evening for a few days, check my readings and then start dosing as normal, adjusting as necessary?

Randy Holmes-Farley · #90 03/25/2006, 09:26 AM

Yes, 25 ml morning and night is fine. If, after several days the alkallinity is not where you want, slowly raise the amount. But that amount may be plenty for routine dosing.

tangblack · #91 05/09/2006, 01:20 AM

Randy my dosing pump will be pumping 216ml per day (Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement) in my 400 gallon tank, will this be enough cal/alk for my acropora.
i have about 40 acropora and 100 coral in total.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #92 05/10/2006, 06:02 AM

I think that may not be enough. It is very hard to gauge, but it might take twice that amount or even more of Recipe #1.

tangblack · #93 05/10/2006, 06:12 AM

That is a lot of dosing, over 1.5 litres a week of the two part. How can i make the two part stronger. i am using recipe one.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #94 05/10/2006, 01:15 PM

You cannot make it appreciably stronger. The alkalinity part will become solubility limited. Even a commercial additive can only be a little less than twice as potent.

tangblack · #95 05/16/2006, 05:59 PM

Randy i have had receipt no 1 made up and am dosing 216ml a day on a dosing pump.

I noticed that when the carbonate hits the water it goes cloudy. does that mean that it is to strong? the dosing pump only dosers 1 drop every 15 seconds or so.

I have been checking my kh and noticed that it is dropping everyday. the calcium side seems ok. and seems to be going up.

Could the carbonate be too strong??

psimitry · #96 05/16/2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tangblack
Randy i have had receipt no 1 made up and am dosing 216ml a day on a dosing pump.

I noticed that when the carbonate hits the water it goes cloudy. does that mean that it is to strong? the dosing pump only dosers 1 drop every 15 seconds or so.

I have been checking my kh and noticed that it is dropping everyday. the calcium side seems ok. and seems to be going up.

Could the carbonate be too strong??

Cloudiness when dosing the alkalinity supplement is perfectly normal provided it dissapates(sp?) within seconds.

tangblack · #97 05/17/2006, 02:55 AM

randy, another question if i may.

With the two part solution ,
to keep levels up in my 2000L tank i have to add about 1.5L of each solution,
But using say a calcium from salifert i only have to add about 250ml a week,

why do we have to add so much of the two part solution.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #98 05/17/2006, 07:20 AM

I noticed that when the carbonate hits the water it goes cloudy. does that mean that it is to strong? the dosing pump only dosers 1 drop every 15 seconds or so.

As psimitry mentions above, that is normal. Here's a typical look for adding the high pH alkalinity part of a two part system:

from:

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm

But using say a calcium from salifert i only have to add about 250ml a week,

Which product? Coral Calcium is about 160,000 ppm in calcium. You could probably make the calcium part of my DIY that concentrated, but not the alkalinity part. It is not that soluble. So you would no longer have equal parts.

cdochene · #99 05/17/2006, 07:49 AM

Have been using the 3 part recipe and am very pleased. Have been wondering about the concentration of the chemicals varying in the storage containers? Say higher at the top and lower at the bottom in the container. Was getting hard white specs on the inside of the show tank when adding full strength. Precipitation? Have diluted the recipe with a varying results. Recipe is being added to the sump in the basement so there is 20 feet of travel to the tank and running through the 100/200 micron filters.

Dosing part 1 and part 2 in recipe 1
40 ml per day at 1/4 strength
(calculated from the tubing size and the dosing rate from the pump readout.)

Charlie

180 show
60 gal sump
1200 gph flow

alk 3.5 meg/l steady
ca 420 steady
ph 8.0 - 8.18 .2 swing daily
mag 1250 - 1350 varies with dosing

Randy Holmes-Farley · #**100** 05/17/2006, 09:51 AM

Unless you have a substantial amount of solid material on the bottom of a jug, the concentration will not vary through the solution, no matter how long it sits.

The parameters look good and wouldn't suggest a reason for the white specs that might be precipitation of calcium carbonate. I wouldn't worry much about it.