An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement Article Posted - Page 3

Randy Holmes-Farley · #51 03/17/2006, 08:15 AM

You mention in the article about using the second recipe if you are using limewater. I was hoping you could share some more details on how the dosing instructions would change for using the Improved DIY Recipe if one was using limewater.

Can you shed some light on this for me?

The only difference would be that limewater has likely pushed the pH to the high side already, so you may not need or want and ph raising effect from the two part. If that is true, use Recipe 2, and still dose based on measured need as described in the article. You might start at a somewhat lower dose of the two part, but that isn't too important as the dose will soon be raised up or down to meet the demand.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #52 03/17/2006, 08:18 AM

Am I reading this right, that I have way to much sodium in my tank now? ?

Sodium? No, there's no concern about sodium. Sulfate may have risen over time.

The magnesium chloride recipe is not dependent on water changes for anything. It is well balanced for all the major ions.

The original recipe is benefited by water changes to keep the sulfate more similar to natural levels, but I've not seen any data on how much sulfate is too much. You may not have enough to have any issue from it, but water changes might be beneficial.

Hightower33 · #53 03/17/2006, 12:13 PM

Is there anyone on the West Coast, and more specifically Pacific Northwest (Vancouver for me) Seattle, etc found the magnesium chloride hexahydrate in any stores?

Also- How many of you are using Randy's Recipe AND dosing Kalkwasser? I stopped using kalk because my sandbed was hardening up. However my PH continues to remain on low side, despite the daily alk aditions.

captbunzo · #54 03/17/2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by captbunzo
You mention in the article about using the second recipe if you are using limewater. I was hoping you could share some more details on how the dosing instructions would change for using the Improved DIY Recipe if one was using limewater.

Can you shed some light on this for me?

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley [/i]
The only difference would be that limewater has likely pushed the pH to the high side already, so you may not need or want and ph raising effect from the two part. If that is true, use Recipe 2, and still dose based on measured need as described in the article. You might start at a somewhat lower dose of the two part, but that isn't too important as the dose will soon be raised up or down to meet the demand.

You did answer the question I asked.... But I guess I didn't ask my question terribly well.

I guess I am sort of wondering whether you advise FOR or AGAINST the use of this recipe & kalkwasser at the same time. I would like to be able to get away with maybe dosing this recipe maybe once a week while doing daily topoff with Kalkwasser.

Is that a reasonable idea?

I think a little work on my part might give me the answers I need to find out how to do this properly. Start with getting the Calcium, Alk, and Magnesium where they need to be. Dose via topoff Kalkwasser for a week. Then test these three parameters again and does 2-part to bring things back up to where they need to be.

Perhaps the measurement of how good an idea this is would be based upon how much of a downward swing I have over the course of a week in Calcium, Alk, & Magnesium. If it isn't severe, then perhaps I could use this "daily kalk/weekly your recipe" dosing schedule. And if it goes well, the weekly doses of your 2 (3) part recipe should require equal parts of the Calcium & Alk forumlas, and then a little Magnesium dosage in accordance with the rations you've specified in the article.

Hmmnn... Thoughts?

Chrismo · #55 03/17/2006, 12:27 PM

I'm sorry I meant sulphate, not sodium.

Near the bottom of your article you wrote "Residue Remaining from Recipe #1 when using Recipe #1, Part 3B... (there is roughly a 29% rise in salinity over a year using this addition rate without water changes):"

Thats a lot isnt it?

Also, in Table2, "Final Tank Concentration (w/ Part 3A)" it shows that after 1 year, sulphate levels are normal (1270), yet in the text above, it says
"(there is roughly a 32% rise in salinity over a year using this addition rate without water changes)"

Hope you can help me wrap my head around this, I'm obviously missing something.

Hightower33 - I've been doseing the original recipe along with Kalkawasser without problems.

If anyone in the Toronto Canada region is looking for Dowflake or Magflake, they are available here: http://www.innovativecompany.com/dustdry.asp

Much thanks,
Chris

Randy Holmes-Farley · #56 03/17/2006, 12:35 PM

I guess I am sort of wondering whether you advise FOR or AGAINST the use of this recipe & kalkwasser at the same time. I would like to be able to get away with maybe dosing this recipe maybe once a week while doing daily topoff with Kalkwasser.

Is that a reasonable idea?

Yes, that is a fine idea. It is a very good choice when limewater alone doesn't quite cut it. I agree that seeing how low it gets will determine how often you need to boost it.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #57 03/17/2006, 12:37 PM

Near the bottom of your article you wrote "Residue Remaining from Recipe #1 when using Recipe #1, Part 3B... (there is roughly a 29% rise in salinity over a year using this addition rate without water changes):"

Thats a lot isnt it?

Yes, it is. But of course you normally monitor and adjust salinity periodically, presumably, so that rise itself isn't a concern, and is the same with any two part system.

captbunzo · #58 03/17/2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
I guess I am sort of wondering whether you advise FOR or AGAINST the use of this recipe & kalkwasser at the same time. I would like to be able to get away with maybe dosing this recipe maybe once a week while doing daily topoff with Kalkwasser.

Is that a reasonable idea?

Yes, that is a fine idea. It is a very good choice when limewater alone doesn't quite cut it. I agree that seeing how low it gets will determine how often you need to boost it.

Let's say I am aiming for parameters as follows:

   Calcium: 440
   Alkalinity: 3.95
   Magnesium: 1250

What maximum allowed swing of these parameters would you recommend for a mixed reef tank with a couple LPS, SPS, and some calcareous plants (halimeda, mermaid's fan, shaving brush)?

And, btw, thank you for your time.

Chrismo · #59 03/17/2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Near the bottom of your article you wrote "Residue Remaining from Recipe #1 when using Recipe #1, Part 3B... (there is roughly a 29% rise in salinity over a year using this addition rate without water changes):"

Thats a lot isnt it?

Yes, it is. But of course you normally monitor and adjust salinity periodically, presumably, so that rise itself isn't a concern, and is the same with any two part system.

Ahh I see, So once you adjust for salinity, like everyone does anyway, everything is hunky-dory. Thanks!

Chrismo

captbunzo · #60 03/17/2006, 01:19 PM

I really like Buckeye Field Supply as a source for Dowflake.

http://www.buckeyefieldsupply.com/sh...owspecials=124

Two reasons - they sell small bags (4 lb), and shipping prices are excellent. Shipping starts at $8.40 for 1-2 bags. For 3-?? bags, it is only $8.93. Now I am talking TOTAL, not per bag. And I say 3-?? because I didn't want to play around long enough to find out how many you can still buy for $8.93 shipping. It is at LEAST 10.

I punched in 100 bags, and got a shipping price of only $19. Wowzers!

I just ordered 2 bags for myself. I think that should hold me over until winter when it's available (hopefully) at my local home improvement store (Lowes).

Randy Holmes-Farley · #61 03/17/2006, 01:25 PM

Calcium: 440
Alkalinity: 3.95
Magnesium: 1250

What maximum allowed swing of these parameters would you recommend for a mixed reef tank with a couple LPS, SPS, and some calcareous plants (halimeda, mermaid's fan, shaving brush)?

The only one that will swing much is alkalinity. I wouldn't like to see it lower than 2.5 meq/L for any significant period of time.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #62 03/17/2006, 01:26 PM

Ahh I see, So once you adjust for salinity, like everyone does anyway, everything is hunky-dory. Thanks!

You're welcome and good luck.

captbunzo · #63 03/17/2006, 01:27 PM

Very cool. Thanks for the advice, Randy. Now let's just see if I can actually find some Mag Flake. It's the last item on my list.

captbunzo · #64 03/18/2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by captbunzo
I really like Buckeye Field Supply as a source for Dowflake.

http://www.buckeyefieldsupply.com/sh...owspecials=124

Two reasons - they sell small bags (4 lb), and shipping prices are excellent.

Ok, I take it all back. I got an email today requesting an additonal $4.90 of shipping charges. Too good to be true, eh?

Be warned that they will likely contact you AFTER you have paid initally and request more shipping cost. While I am glad to have a source for small quantities of CaCl, I believe it is pretty unprofessional and bad ecommerce practice to not get your shipping costs calculated in CORRECTLY up front. I mean, it's not like they simply told me that shipping would be calculated later, and had me paid at that point. I paid $8 and something up front for shipping. And then was asked for more.

Sorry, don't mean to rant, I just get irritated by this sort of behaviour by a company.

psimitry · #65 03/18/2006, 07:20 PM

Any ideas about where to pick up dow flake or mag flake in the states where ice isn't much of a problem? (i.e. Arizona)

Randy Holmes-Farley · #66 03/19/2006, 07:42 AM

Dowflake and similar products are sometimes sold to pool stores and concrete plants. All-Clear brand for pools is suitable as it is repackaged Dowflake.

Paul B · #67 03/19/2006, 09:05 AM

Randy, I really love this Dow Flake concoction you invented. In a short time my corals grew out of the tank and are moving up the wall./

I am saving so much money on kalk and kent and other things that begin with "K" that I will be able to retire sooner

As for getting the Dowflake in arizona, just call someone in the northeast or northwest where it is sold all over the place and have them ship you some.

Thanks Randy.

Paul

Randy Holmes-Farley · #68 03/19/2006, 09:35 AM

You're welcome, but does that mean the bottle in your tank will be encrusted so we wont recognize it anymore?

psimitry · #69 03/19/2006, 04:30 PM

I actually found the All-Clear at a local store.

The mag flake might be a different story, but I'll probably just go with the part 3b instead (the Mag just isn't ANYWHERE. I spent an hour on the phone calling around town).

Randy Holmes-Farley · #70 03/19/2006, 05:18 PM

Sounds good. Just be sure to do occasional water changes.

psimitry · #71 03/19/2006, 05:22 PM

10% twice weekly.

Paul B · #72 03/19/2006, 07:47 PM

I think so, do you still recognize it?

psimitry · #73 03/19/2006, 11:16 PM

Interestingly enough -

When mixing the all-clear flake, I made two gallons of it (one for me, and one for a friend of mine).

In gallon #1, the solution is clear.

In gallon #2, it's pretty cloudy white.

psimitry · #74 03/20/2006, 02:31 AM

Also -

Is there a level that the baking soda should be dissolved before calling it done?

I had a powerhead stirring the baked baking soda and water for about 5 hours with a heater in it (as per the "heating the mixture will speed dissolution) and it still had quite a bit of undissolved baking soda on the bottom of the bucket.

Any tips?

Randy Holmes-Farley · #75 03/20/2006, 07:11 AM

Interestingly enough -

When mixing the all-clear flake, I made two gallons of it (one for me, and one for a friend of mine).

In gallon #1, the solution is clear.

In gallon #2, it's pretty cloudy white.

Easy solution:

Give gallon #2 to to your firend.

How much solid in the baking soda? Maybe warm it more. In general, don't worry about a little precipitate. There can be some insoluble materials in both parts. Just leave it on the bottom if possible.