Mangrove Experiment - 50 Gallon tank

[capn_hylinur]

thanks eddybabyhd-----I think I am going to copy this plan over the holidays.

[RawFish]

Hum... it got so quiet in here... I guess everybody's out buying their mangroves. eddybabyhd, don't be surprised if you start seeing setups like yours all over the place.

PS. Do you decorate your mangroves for Xmas?

[eddybabyhd]

Nope not yet. I really hope to get this new tank going soon, the lagoon idea is really got me thinking.

[RawFish]

Here's a nice pick from another forum. He was the "Aquarium of the Month" for June 2005. It's in spanish, but the picks are interesting. His main tank is indoors, but thanks to the Mexican weather, he has both of his refugia outdoors. His Mangroves receive 100% sun light.

http://www.all-reefs.com/inicio/viewtopic.php?t=692

[killagoby]

If I were you I'd get rid of the Fluval 304 canister filter and Hang-on-back power filter. They might be a source of some of the nitrate readings in your tank...

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by killagoby
If I were you I'd get rid of the Fluval 304 canister filter and Hang-on-back power filter. They might be a source of some of the nitrate readings in your tank...

gut the fluval and run just carbon in it

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by RawFish
Hum... it got so quiet in here... I guess everybody's out buying their mangroves. eddybabyhd, don't be surprised if you start seeing setups like yours all over the place.

PS. Do you decorate your mangroves for Xmas?

certainly not quiet at home-----arrive home to find a gold algae/cyano on the sand bed----check to see if the skimmer is working--its not. Yank the skimmer out of the sump and find the air venturi has a precipitated shut--take the skimmer all apart upstairs and fixed that.
Went back stairs to find the fuge dumping water all over the floor----fixed that--found a piece of live rock I moved in the sump to get out the skimmer was crimping the flow line---mopped all the water up----was about five gallons or so--so I mixed up five gallons of salt water--topped that up.
----went back up stairs to direct the power heads towards the substrate for the cyano area--noticed all three koralinas were plugged with algae----took them all out and did the vinegar cleanup to them---put them back in.
---used a turkey baster on the rock and sand bed---

threw the mop up towels in the wash

sat down on the computer to go on RC--the internet was down--- but I am back on today with a sqeaky clean tank--and don't have to do a partial water change this weekeng

"such is the live of the everyday reefer"

[RawFish]

Wow capn_hylinur, what a day! That reminded me of when I got home from work, back in august, to find my living room Parquet floor bubbled up with 5G of water: A hang on back power filter overflowed; lucky I got home in time, it could have been worse. There's still a hole in my floor, still fighting with the insurance company ($!@#%^&).
________________________________________________

WEEK 3 - With Mangroves
While feeding Normally Brine shrimp, Spirulina pellets and marine flakes:

Nitrates: 5-10 ppm
Nitrites: <5ppm
Ammonia: 0
PH: 8.3
Spec. Grav: 1.024
Calcium: 400ppm

Observations: Nitrates seem to have raised to less than 10ppm.

Conclusion: Slight Nitrate increase; maintained lower than tracked previously. Tests previous to Mangrove addition showed Nitrates raising to 20ppm every 2 weeks.
________________________________________________

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by RawFish
Wow capn_hylinur, what a day! That reminded me of when I got home from work, back in august, to find my living room Parquet floor bubbled up with 5G of water: A hang on back power filter overflowed; lucky I got home in time, it could have been worse. There's still a hole in my floor, still fighting with the insurance company ($!@#%^&).
________________________________________________

WEEK 3 - With Mangroves
While feeding Normally Brine shrimp, Spirulina pellets and marine flakes:

Nitrates: 5-10 ppm
Nitrites: <5ppm
Ammonia: 0
PH: 8.3
Spec. Grav: 1.024
Calcium: 400ppm

Observations: Nitrates seem to have raised to less than 10ppm.

Conclusion: Slight Nitrate increase; maintained lower than tracked previously. Tests previous to Mangrove addition showed Nitrates raising to 20ppm every 2 weeks.
________________________________________________

thanks rawfish--its times like yours and mine, that I am glad I moved to the basement with my sump and fuge---I would recommend doing that to anyone that can.

Have you noticed any difference in the pH--on another thread we are debating the use of mangroves as co2 users: its starts down near the bottom:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1268577

[RawFish]

Funny that you mention that. Since I put the mangroves my PH remained at 8.3, so I didn't add anything... until this week, on monday checked the PH and had dropped to 8.0. I blame it on the increase in nitrates. Will have to check for Alkalinity... I'll get myself a test for X-mas.

I read a "Saltwater aquariums for dummies" written by a Marine Biologist, where he explains changes in PH and its relation with Limewater, alkalinity, calcium and other compounds. It seems it is very complex, because to much of some of them will drop down others. I thought I'd just add a buffer and leave the chemistry to professionals or hardcore amateurs due to the amount of precision, equipment, testing and additives involved... will check the tread though, I might learn a trick or two. Thanks!

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by RawFish
Funny that you mention that. Since I put the mangroves my PH remained at 8.3, so I didn't add anything... until this week, on monday checked the PH and had dropped to 8.0. I blame it on the increase in nitrates. Will have to check for Alkalinity... I'll get myself a test for X-mas.

I read a "Saltwater aquariums for dummies" written by a Marine Biologist, where he explains changes in PH and its relation with Limewater, alkalinity, calcium and other compounds. It seems it is very complex, because to much of some of them will drop down others. I thought I'd just add a buffer and leave the chemistry to professionals or hardcore amateurs due to the amount of precision, equipment, testing and additives involved... will check the tread though, I might learn a trick or two. Thanks!

do not use buffers to treat low pH readings----they increase your alkalinity with boron---which is part of the alk reading. However boron is minor in its use--its more the carbonates that are uptaked by corals. So by using buffers you end up with high alk but in the less useful components.
The buffers will raise pH but it will drop faster then the alk level and you end up with high alk, but low pH

pH should be treated as a carbon dioxide problem--that's where the mangroves come in and the fuge with chaeto etc--these will consume carbon dioxide and keep you pH more stable

[f.gump]

great thread.
I've always wanted to get a mangrove tank set up. This thread is the insentive I needed to get up off my butt and start plumbing.
Thanks

[RawFish]

Mh, good one capn_hylinur... interesting and makes a lot of sense. I need to get that fuge setup quickly to put my manroves and chaeto. Still waiting to get the floor done.

I guess that's why fuges can use longer photo-periods... more CO2 consumption while producing Oxigen.

Thanks again!

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by RawFish
Mh, good one capn_hylinur... interesting and makes a lot of sense. I need to get that fuge setup quickly to put my manroves and chaeto. Still waiting to get the floor done.

I guess that's why fuges can use longer photo-periods... more CO2 consumption while producing Oxigen.

Thanks again!

your welcome keep us posted on your success

[Holyreefer]

very inspiring thread
i've always wanted a mangrove tank

[RawFish]

________________________________________________

WEEK 4 - With Mangroves
While feeding normally: Brine shrimp, Spirulina pellets and marine flakes:

Nitrates: 5-10 ppm
Nitrites: <5ppm
Ammonia: 0
PH: 8.2
Spec. Grav: 1.024
Calcium: 400ppm

Observations: Nitrates seem to have remained at less than 10ppm.

Conclusion: Nitrates are maintained between 5-10ppm. Tests previous to Mangrove addition showed Nitrates raising to 20ppm every 2 weeks.
________________________________________________

The Experiment
Nitrate levels previous to mangrove addition seemed to raise up to 20ppm every 2 weeks. A partial water changed was performed and 2 mangrove plants with developed roots were introduced in the water column, directly in the main tank.

Overall conclusion
The addition of mangroves with developed roots to an established Marine Aquarium seems to have reduced the Nitrate concentration in the system. Although other factors may have affected directly the results (sand, live rock, algae) the discrepancy between previous tests and this esperiment results denotes a considerable effect in nitrate reduction attributed to the mangrove plants. When the results are plotted, a raising gradient can be interpreted as a slow increase of nitrates in time, this is may be due to the fact that the ratio Mangroves/Gallons of water should be around 1:10 (1 plant per every 10 gallons) and in this experiment I used only 2 mangroves in a 50 G tank.

Thank you for standing by and for your interest and contributions to this tread.

Happy Reefing!

style="width: 587px; height: 313px;">

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by RawFish
________________________________________________

WEEK 4 - With Mangroves
While feeding normally: Brine shrimp, Spirulina pellets and marine flakes:

Nitrates: 5-10 ppm
Nitrites: <5ppm
Ammonia: 0
PH: 8.2
Spec. Grav: 1.024
Calcium: 400ppm

Observations: Nitrates seem to have remained at less than 10ppm.

Conclusion: Nitrates are maintained between 5-10ppm. Tests previous to Mangrove addition showed Nitrates raising to 20ppm every 2 weeks.
________________________________________________

The Experiment
Nitrate levels previous to mangrove addition seemed to raise up to 20ppm every 2 weeks. A partial water changed was performed and 2 mangrove plants with developed roots were introduced in the water column, directly in the main tank.

Overall conclusion
The addition of mangroves with developed roots to an established Marine Aquarium seems to have reduced the Nitrate concentration in the system. Although other factors may have affected directly the results (sand, live rock, algae) the discrepancy between previous tests and this esperiment results denotes a considerable effect in nitrate reduction attributed to the mangrove plants. When the results are plotted, a raising gradient can be interpreted as a slow increase of nitrates in time, this is may be due to the fact that the ratio Mangroves/Gallons of water should be around 1:10 (1 plant per every 10 gallons) and in this experiment I used only 2 mangroves in a 50 G tank.

Thank you for standing by and for your interest and contributions to this tread.

Happy Reefing!

style="width: 587px; height: 313px;">

good show--good thread--but your not done yet
This thead is still hot--and were still learning

Rawfish--did you notice any other benifits of the mangrove fug?

was your water clearer--less dissolved stuff floating around, did you skimmer work less etc etc.

[RawFish]

he he he... I knew I wasn't gonna get out so easily...

I haven't installed the fuge yet. I have the piping already but waiting on floor repairs that will force me to move the tank, so will add the fuge next year. I plan to use a 5 gallon aquarium with 4" or more SandBed, get some cheato and 10-15 mangroves.

The fuge will definitely bring in benefits: I can put more mangroves which will grow nicer roots in a DSB, to increase the nutrient absorption. Among others/// aesthetic, photoperiod, etc.

Can't tell if my water was cleaner, it's always seemed like that. Now that you mention it, the skimmer now produces a more dry foam than before. but I don't know if that is a direct effect.

Will continue adding info... I have to go back to the LFS to see how he's doing with his mangroves. that'll be an interesting post.

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by RawFish
he he he... I knew I wasn't gonna get out so easily...

I haven't installed the fuge yet. I have the piping already but waiting on floor repairs that will force me to move the tank, so will add the fuge next year. I plan to use a 5 gallon aquarium with 4" or more SandBed, get some cheato and 10-15 mangroves.

The fuge will definitely bring in benefits: I can put more mangroves which will grow nicer roots in a DSB, to increase the nutrient absorption. Among others/// aesthetic, photoperiod, etc.

Can't tell if my water was cleaner, it's always seemed like that. Now that you mention it, the skimmer now produces a more dry foam than before. but I don't know if that is a direct effect.

Will continue adding info... I have to go back to the LFS to see how he's doing with his mangroves. that'll be an interesting post.

it probably is because they are taking out more docs then just nitrates.
When I run my filter sock I notice the same effect with the skimmate.

[davy182]

maybe now to validate that mangroves were doing the nitrate removal it would be good to track it without the mangroves in and the nitrates should good back up.

[RawFish]

________________________________________________

WEEK 5 - With Mangroves - No Water Changes
While feeding normally: Brine shrimp, Spirulina pellets and marine flakes:

Nitrates: 5-10 ppm
Nitrites: <5ppm
Ammonia: 0
PH: 8.0
Spec. Grav: 1.023


Observations: Nitrates seem to have remained at less than 10ppm.

Conclusion: Nitrates are maintained between 5-10ppm. Tests previous to Mangrove addition showed Nitrates raising to 20ppm every 2 weeks.
________________________________________________

A proposed, I removed the 2 mangroves from the system

[eddybabyhd]

This type of result is spurring my curiosity. I wonder what type of results I am getting

[m2434]

Interesting idea, just can't really make any conclusions from a single tank. It's kinda like doing a clinical trial on one person...

They look great though and I'm fairly sure they're not hurting anything...

[RawFish]

Hey m2434, you are more than right, every tank is different. I guess the only conclusion will be for this tank exclusively.

As a note, many people have carried out similar mangrove experiments with successful results as well. The variable differentiating each tank and it's independent conditions seems to be the ratio Mangrove/gallon.

So far it looks like it's working for my tank, so I have in my hands the ticket to Happy Reefing without Nitrates; I'll just need to balance out the ratio Mangroves/Gallon, which for my tank and my conditions should be something between 3 and 7.

[RawFish]

As proposed, I removed the mangroves from the system last Sunday.

We'll see what happens next Sunday. I expect the Nitrates to raise. I'll prepare for a Water Change.