The "Hitchhiker's Guide" to the Maxi-Stream mod

[hahnmeister]

SCH80 is induxtrial grade, thats why you wont find it unless you order it online or buy from a some place like a plumbing supply that carries commercial/induxtrial grade.

[hahnmeister]

SCH80 is induxtrial grade, thats why you wont find it unless you order it online or buy from a some place like a plumbing supply that carries commercial/induxtrial grade.

[brians_224]

My local ace hardware stocks Sched 80

[smells like fish]

He told me the mods or RF explicitly asked him not to post a detailed how to on this.

Like I said earlier, this all stems from the earlier thread where he wanted to borrow someones Vortech to copy. He wanted to make a MOLD of it. That's when the mods stepped in.

Read the thread

The thread is actually a good read. liveforphysics believed that what he was doing(making a mold from a Vortech,etc) was no different from the DIY projects already posted on RF(DIY needlewheel skimmer).

When are we violating copyright laws with our DIY projects?

I think he crossed the line with wanting to make a MOLD of a Vortech, but the instructions he posted later were more in tune with other DIY projects on RF and RC.

Nobody here is making molds of a Tunze stream and propellar. Right?

[hahnmeister]

If we turn around and sell, or DIY for the intent of selling, then it is a patent violation. To a certain extent, posting instructions on how a person can build their own is a gray area...but can be considered a patent violation. That is why RF mods stepped in.

As long as the poster doesnt give the 'step-by-step' , but instead were to post several detailed photos/diagrams for the intent of showing off what he did rather than showing others how to make their own...there would be no patent violation.

Trust me, been through this before.

[Timbo]

Creating any patented product on your own, for commercial OR personal use, is a violation of the patent and makes you and this site potentially liable. Period.

Copywrites are totally different then patents and really don't apply to products at all, they are intended primarily for other forms of intellectual property such as text and photographs. Inventions are protected by patents:


U.S Code Title 35.PartIII. Chapter28. S271 Patent Infringement

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent.

(b) Whoever actively induces infringement of a patent shall be liable as an infringer.

(c) Whoever offers to sell or sells within the United States or imports into the United States a component of a patented machine, manufacture, combination or composition, or a material or apparatus for use in practicing a patented process, constituting a material part of the invention, knowing the same to be especially made or especially adapted for use in an infringement of such patent, and not a staple article or commodity of commerce suitable for substantial noninfringing use, shall be liable as a contributory infringer.

[AndyL]

Not going to say anything about patent as I don't know my arse from a whole in the ground on that topic...

But basically as I see it, they took a magnetic stirer put a prop on the inside and marketed - have trouble seeing how that's not patent infringement on their part.

But we don't see seio, tunze or other manufacturers screaming when we make stream type mods to powerheads... The basic idea is open source, I don't see the problem with doing a little reverse engineering to build a DIY version.

Andy

[ThunderousTalon]

this thread has been awesome, i am finally braving it up but I am curious as to what prop would be best for an aquaclear 20/201? I am thinking the 1435? please let me know. thanx for everything guys, definitely make this hobby better.

[hahnmeister]

"Creating any patented product on your own, for commercial OR personal use" - Timbo

Really? What is your source on this? See, according to the patent law I was informed of by my hotshot Boston patent lawyer, anyone can create a patented product on their own, as long as it isnt intended for to be made for profit.

There is a good reason for why this is allowed >>> R&D. See, if making a patented product for your own use was not allowed, companies would have a harder time developing off of other's ideas & designs. So making replicas, modifying them, etc (things that go a step beyond calling up the parent patent owner and asking them for one of their product) is legal. If you were to take those samples and sell them...then you are in violation. But, you can take that design, develop it, and if you can make a significant enough step-forward over the original design, your improved design would qualify for its own new patent (yes, even if its based off of another's patented design). Otherwise, progress would be hindered, because coming even close to another company's design in the development of your own would make you a patent violator.

Last I checked, making a patented product for your own use was 100% legal. Once you cross the line of selling it...then you are in violation.

I can make my own version of a patented product, post pics of it all over the internet, and there is nothing wrong with it.

If I sell the design, or, make step by step instructions or diagrams for the purpose of others being able to make their own patented products, then I am in violation. This is the grey area...see, if detailed drawings, diagrams, and such are presented not in an instructional format, but in a 'detailed showing' of a person's creation...they are technically legal. That was the question that the lawyer asked me when I told him I posted pics of the product I made on the internet..."was it detail oriented, or instructional?"...that is the key question. As it turns out, I was bordering on another company's utility patent (AquaC), but my design was viewed as a significant enough improvement over the original design that I would be legal if I patented it. If making my own version of AquaC's patent were illegal all together, I would have never been able to develop the design further. Had my detailed pics and diagrams been for instructional purposes (for others to build their own), then not only would I have been in violation of AquaC's patent, but I would also have voided the possibility of me applying for my own patent, as the public disbursment of the patent in a 'how-to' manner would have made the patent's details 'public knowlege'...and therefore not eligable for patent.

But last I heard, DIYing patented goods for personal use was 100% legal.

[rivan]

Originally posted by dhnguyen
Here's how I think the Vortech works. It is my guess that it's nothing more than a fancy magnetic stirrer with a propeller.


Here look at this.

http://brewiki.org/moin/wiki/moin.cgi/StirPlate

I wonder if you can use two of these DC fans. One on the outside and then somehow refit the second one so that its salt proof. Probably still have to put in a water prop as the fan is designed to push air. The cheap fans usually use plastic bushings instead of bearings.

[hahnmeister]

I asked this a while back...and I suppose computer fans are a poor choice for moving water. A regular prop would be the way to go...

[RichConley]

Originally posted by smells like fish
Like I said earlier, this all stems from the earlier thread where he wanted to borrow someones Vortech to copy. He wanted to make a MOLD of it. That's when the mods stepped in.

Read the thread

The thread is actually a good read. liveforphysics believed that what he was doing(making a mold from a Vortech,etc) was no different from the DIY projects already posted on RF(DIY needlewheel skimmer).

When are we violating copyright laws with our DIY projects?

I think he crossed the line with wanting to make a MOLD of a Vortech, but the instructions he posted later were more in tune with other DIY projects on RF and RC.

Nobody here is making molds of a Tunze stream and propellar. Right?

What he was doing is perfectly, 100% legal. You can't just quote one part of a law and think you understand it. All he is doing is covered under fair use.


That just proves that the mods over there have no idea what theyre talking about.

[MiddletonMark]

Folks, discussion of another board's moderation is not allowed here.

It's a quick way to end a thread, I'd strongly urge the subject be dropped.

[jmkins]

for the diy stirring mod, if you google magnetic stir bars you will find a number of chemical resistant PTFE coated stir bars in various shapes. Crosses, discs, x shaped bars are common and come in a variety of arm lengths.

Just a something to keep in mind if anyone goes through with trying this mod

[Roland Jacques]

OK Then,
How about them stream mods? Yeah!

What happened to the aqauclear thread?

I don’t no about you guys, but these ac mods are not working that great for me. The problem is start up power. It seems the 402 and the 802 start up power is about the same. Very little.

When it running look out! My 802 is running with the 1.75 prop it pushes my hand hard, I’d say around 5000-6000 gph. It was over double the flow of all 3 of my Lutz maxi mods side by side. But it is very hard to start and it would stall after a while.

At moments it’s acted weird; it is almost like it has 2 speeds. The slow 'I want to start speed", and the "look out speed im running speed". I tried the Lutz prop it is smaller diameter 1.27" and a more balanced screw type prop. I thought it would start easier, it still did not want to start in full speed. It was about the same start up issues.

If we have to use sanded down 1.5 prop or a 1.25 prop to make these have a reliable start ups. I'm not convened these bigger more expence mods are going to be better or easier than the maxi. Any thoughts?

[stones]

Just wondering if anyone has been able to solve the issue of aquaclears always starting in the wrong direction. I modded my AC 4000 and fitted it with an octura 1445 but it would always turn clockwise every time. Even with just the old impeller on, it would always turn clockwise. Is there any way to get the propeller to spin in the opposite direction or do you just have to use a right handed prop? Any help would be appreciated.

[Ball]

The 802's do have a startup issue. You just cant use a high pitch prop.

Use this prop. It will start everytime and you will get 3000 GPH + out of it. It has a very nice flow spread.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJ761&P=7

[Black71gp]

hey ball what about double of those props.. my 802 runs non stop with no problems with the 1.75 dumas dual props... but starting it is a trick.. 3000 gph is good since i will try and run three in my next tank... maybe i will order 6 of those from tower

[Roland Jacques]

Ball like stone said how about the direction , is yours allways starting in the correct direction? what type prop are you using LH or RH?
is that the same prop you had to sand?



Black71gp

do you have pictures of your shaft assemble? also was your gph less with dual props? diid you notice the two defferent speeds?

[Black71gp]

i notice more flow will try and take a pic

[hahnmeister]

I am putting together pics for the new thread, and waiting on that order that should have come last friday...im missing my new 802s!!!!

[ejmeier]

I got some 3 and 4 blade graupner propellers, and they look really nice. However, I have already ruined two of them by trying to remove the metal insert.

I just cannot seem to come up with a way to get them out of there without ruining the prop. I inserted a 4mm screw into the threads of the insert, and heated it. But I don't think it got hot enough, because when I pulled it out, it was still kinda mushy and pulled a good amount of the props "guts" out with it.

Then, I got it even hotter, and tried again, and that one..... uggg, that one just melted down to almost nothing.

I am *NOT* going to try to use heat to remove these inserts anymore. I'm just not going to risk it.

Do you think I could maybe drop the propeller in some muriatic acid and see if it would corrode the insert away and leave the prop untouched? Any other ideas?

[smjtkj]

That great planes prop is what I am using on my 402, 4000, whatever. It kicks butt, but rarely starts in the right direction. I don't think it comes in a rh prop.
Mike

[Roland Jacques]

Cool Hahn Lou, really love the new you.

Hope you ordered RH props (or was it left hand). I think it is unanimous my 402 and 802 also turn backwards over 80% of the time.

I got two 901 coming, what direction did your 901 turn.

[impur]

Originally posted by ejmeier
I got some 3 and 4 blade graupner propellers, and they look really nice. However, I have already ruined two of them by trying to remove the metal insert.

I just cannot seem to come up with a way to get them out of there without ruining the prop. I inserted a 4mm screw into the threads of the insert, and heated it. But I don't think it got hot enough, because when I pulled it out, it was still kinda mushy and pulled a good amount of the props "guts" out with it.

Then, I got it even hotter, and tried again, and that one..... uggg, that one just melted down to almost nothing.

I am *NOT* going to try to use heat to remove these inserts anymore. I'm just not going to risk it.

Do you think I could maybe drop the propeller in some muriatic acid and see if it would corrode the insert away and leave the prop untouched? Any other ideas?

How about a dremel with a grinder bit? Just grind it out from the inside. Or you could just silicon the heck out of it once its mounted.