my diy needle wheel dart pump

[DC321]

[QUOTE] let me know what you think.



I love you, man.

[spazz]

Originally posted by viggen
DAM you are a sick man

i think we are all sick addicts that need help. lol just another tort fix or maybe i will go lite today and get a small fix of the tenius.

Originally posted by viggen

Anyways, how will adding water from a drain/overflow on a aquarium or even hooking up your 2nd dart to push water into the skimmer affect the bubbles? Due to the added turbulance wouldn't that help keep the bubbles tiny as well as push the bubbles lower into the body?

Honey...that's the name of my soon to be X wife

by adding the highly concentrated water (high DOC ppm) from the overflows right to the skimmer it would perform better. i do this on my 120 i curently have. it has little affect on turbulance in the skimmer because you dont want to put that much into the skimmer. for a skimmer the size of my test tank, you would only put about 800-1000 galons per hour through there. and i would have dual inputs to on each side of the body to spread out the dirty water right away. that would allow the dirty water to come in contact with the maximum amount of bubbles with in the first 10 seconds of being in the skimmer body. and you dont need to push the bubbles down into the body of the skimmer. they circulate around in the chamber just fine. the smaller the bubbles get the longer it takes them to rise up and pop. that gives you the dwell time needed to clean the water properly. big bubbles just rise up and pop right away. they also cause high turbulance at the top where the foam head is. you want a calm head of foam. if it gets turbulant at the top it might not build and rise properly. then it gets sucked back down with the water again. your looking for the most gentel currents in the skimmer body tha dont disrupt the head of foam. and thats all in the bubble size and density of the bubbles too.

[AcroSteve]

Looking good!

Is your impeller design strong enough for long term use yet? Do you have any concers at all of it coming apart, say in a few years down the road?

[dgasmd]

Originally posted by AcroSteve
Is your impeller design strong enough for long term use yet? Do you have any concers at all of it coming apart, say in a few years down the road?

I don't mean to speak for spazz, but even if it did not hold up for years and held up only for let's say a couple of year only if the price is right then it should be no big deal. You have to keep in mind that the impeller and design he has done so far with air force feeding is mostly only applicable at this point to larger tanks. Putting something like this in a 180g would be simply ridiculous I think. I am sure the same concept can be applied to smaller skimmers and systems. but I think that is way way down the road. Just an opinion.

[nyvp]

Anyone know the update from Dart on eta of new product?

[Energy]

WOW!! You weren't kidding on that bubble size. That's incredible.

[honey]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
For the 18"x18"x72" tall monster, I prolly will use 3/4" if it ends up that tall.

Would you also use 3/4" for 20"x20"x72" ?
Would less than 3/4" compromise it at all? or just to make it super strong?

by spazz
the tank is made from 1/4" acrylic. its a factory made tank that i bought from a bar that had fresh water fish in it. it stands 6 ft tall and and 14. 5" diameter octogon.

In a skimmer with a tubular body like the one you made for reefwonders:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...5&pagenumber=9




Would you replace those 4 x 3700 OceanRunners with the pump you are testing on this awesome thread?
Would this pump be able to handle a wider tube than 12" lets say a 18" skimmer body? or would that be too much water volume for this pump?
I read there that it's a 12" skimmer body, is it also 1/4"?

BTW, the pics of the small bubble size are incredible. Just compare them to the size produced on that other thread on that other skimmer using the 4 ORs:



wow...

Honey

[Isayso]

any updates?
c'mon lets see more of this wonder

[got2lb]

I'd just like to say SPAZZ you're fricken NUTZ!!! I mean that as a compliment of course!

That thing is insane. Keep up the good work!

[trodder]

In regards to longevity... After looking at the impellar I would anticipate that it will withstand the test of time. It is a pretty sturdy looking and feeling design. As far as updates you guys will just have to wait Last I heard he was in Philly or something expecting me to bring him milk & cookies.... Don't ask... LOL!!!!

[spazz]

Originally posted by dgasmd
You have to keep in mind that the impeller and design he has done so far with air force feeding is mostly only applicable at this point to larger tanks. Putting something like this in a 180g would be simply ridiculous I think.

yes supercharging a skimmer pump would be overkill on a 180g tank. but not on a 2000g tank or even a 800g system as long as its energy effecient and gets the job done cheaper than using 4-6 smaller pumps together. thats the bennifits of supercharging the pumps. it makes expanding the skimmer to fit a larger system alot easer.
now if you took a 20" skimmer body 24"-30" tall, you wouldnt need to supercharge the main pump. it would draw enough air on its own. its only when you get to the taller skimmer bodies that the pump draws less air, when your trying to get more air.

[spazz]

Originally posted by honey
Would you also use 3/4" for 20"x20"x72" ?
Would less than 3/4" compromise it at all? or just to make it super strong?

i wont make square skimmer bodies. i dont like the way the bubbles move around inside a square body. they hit alot of flat surface that causes excess turbulance in the body.

Originally posted by honey

In a skimmer with a tubular body like the one you made for reefwonders:
Would you replace those 4 x 3700 OceanRunners with the pump you are testing on this awesome thread?
Would this pump be able to handle a wider tube than 12" lets say a 18" skimmer body? or would that be too much water volume for this pump?
I read there that it's a 12" skimmer body, is it also 1/4"?

no that body is 1/8" thick tube. when you use tubing you can reduce the thickness of the tube because the force being applied at the bottom seam is equal all the way around.

Originally posted by honey

BTW, the pics of the small bubble size are incredible. Just compare them to the size produced on that other thread on that other skimmer using the 4 ORs:



wow...

Honey

the bubbles are very close in size. i feel that the dart is very comparable in bubble size, to any of the needle wheel pumps on the market.

[spazz]

Originally posted by Isayso
any updates?
c'mon lets see more of this wonder

i will get some new pics up here tonight. i have the pump remounted lower in the body and increased the exit pipe plumbing size to 2" in order to get the bubbles to keep form coliding into each outher and combining. so far the testing is 50/50 in my mind. i plan to start working on a new smaller needle wheel. the curent one is to big in my mind. it draws too much energy and makes the pump warm to the touch. so im hoping to reduce the energy consumption by 10%-20% we will see.

[spazz]

Originally posted by trodder
Last I heard he was in Philly or something expecting me to bring him milk & cookies.... Don't ask... LOL!!!!

well you dont read very well do you. it was pensylvania not philly. i wont go to that city. lol dont want to die.
and as for the girl scout cookies.... you said you would deliver. so thats false advertising. I WANT MY COOKIES!!!!!!

[zapata41]

hey spazz what ever happened to the sequence needle wheel, also what happened to the sequence forum here on RC.

TIm

[spazz]

Originally posted by zapata41
hey spazz what ever happened to the sequence needle wheel, also what happened to the sequence forum here on RC.

TIm

your guess is as good as mine. i will email sequence and see if i can find out.

[zapata41]

seems odd to me, they all of a sudden start R&Ding a needle wheel and then they just up an leave. kinda feel bad for ppl that have thier products that depend on this website for customer service.

Tim

[bond007069]

ya i pm'ed about a new dart volute ( i have blue one)

no answer

[Sparg93]

Sorry to tag onto this, but i think you guys could really help me with my new (used) skimmer.

I just bought a used Turbofloator 1000 with Rio (has needlewheel). I set it up in a sump i had lying around and let it rip. The bubbles were huge and there were few of them

After adjusting the knobs that control water flow on the skimmer i was able to get the water 3/4 of the way up the main tube, but i could never get small bubble and all the way to the top. Then i grabbed a MaxiJet1200 and hooked it up to the water intake on the skimmer body and that pushed the water almost to the top, but nothing else.

I have no foam, nadda.

Does anyone have any recommendations (this is my first real skimmer other then my HOB Prizm)???

[spazz]

Originally posted by Sparg93
Sorry to tag onto this, but i think you guys could really help me with my new (used) skimmer.

I just bought a used Turbofloator 1000 with Rio (has needlewheel). I set it up in a sump i had lying around and let it rip. The bubbles were huge and there were few of them

After adjusting the knobs that control water flow on the skimmer i was able to get the water 3/4 of the way up the main tube, but i could never get small bubble and all the way to the top. Then i grabbed a MaxiJet1200 and hooked it up to the water intake on the skimmer body and that pushed the water almost to the top, but nothing else.

I have no foam, nadda.

Does anyone have any recommendations (this is my first real skimmer other then my HOB Prizm)???

it sounds like your salinity level in the water is too low. or you are using just fresh water.

[spazz]

ok guys here is the latest batch of pics after the rework has been done to the pump and plumbing. i mounted the pump lower in the tank first off. then added a 1/2" pvc air intake to the inlet side of the plumbing. this increased the pumps ability to draw air on its own by not restricting the air flow. i cant messure the air intake with out causing a major restriction to happen. the meters i have dont work well under vacuum. it causes the wattage of the pump to rise by 30 watts. so thats telling me its a major restriction. with the meters on it, it will draw 80 scfh. but im sure with out the meters it around 100 scfh. and thats at 4'3" of water hight in the tank. i feel this is becomming a better design every day. it would give the owner the ability to use the pump with or with out an air pump to assist it. you could put the dart on a 4ft skimmer and then if its not enough you could add the sweetwater pump on it to supercharge it. the one thing i worry about is the wattage draw. with out the pump sucking any air it will draw over 300 watts. this design has alot of drag on the motor with out any air in the there being chopped up. but with it sucking air on its own it goes down to 160- 180 watts. depending on how far the valve is opened up on the intake of the pump. i did increase the ouput fitting to 2" and shortend it up as much as possable. i feel it creates alot less drag on the exiting water. so right now this pump will draw 1.8 watts per cubic foot on its own and 1.45 watts per cubic foot with an air pump supercharging it. well enough blah, blah, blah, on to the pictures.

[tinygiants]

Awesome.

Are you happy with the needle wheel? Can it be duplicated by the average DIYer?

Dale

[spazz]

Originally posted by tinygiants
Awesome.

Are you happy with the needle wheel? Can it be duplicated by the average DIYer?

Dale

im somewhat happy with it. but i feel there is always room for improvement.
i dont think the avrage diyer could make one with out some specal tools. like a lathe or milling machine. im going to try and see if i can make one on a drill press. its hard to do a good job on a part that needs to be ballanced and be perfectly round and true. we will see. its just a matter of time before i get it all figured out.

[spazz]

the biggest problem is getting the silicone carbide seal that is in the impellor to seal. thats why it need to be perfect. if the seal was not part of the impellor it wouldnt matter as much. look at the sequence web site for a breakdown of the pump housing and impellor.
here is the link to it.

http://www.mdminc.com/Dart_Parts_List.htm

[zapata41]

sp spazz has sequence contacted you yet to tell you to stop because you are beating them the the punch with thier own product

Tim